 CCM Magazine December 2003  |
Squidzit
Platyhelminth
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"Why a four year old child could understand this...
run out and get me a four year old child, I can't make heads or tails of it."
~Groucho~
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11-19-2003 16:52 |
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Joey T.
Tallowy Tamale
Registration Date: 03-13-2002
Posts: 7,777
Location: you can't fire me, 'cuz i quit! - Kurt Cobain....
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11-19-2003 16:55 |
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freak 
Ceremonial Kernel
Registration Date: 11-13-2003
Posts: 1,171
Location: memory lane
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| quote: |
Originally posted by dennis
CCM glows with warmth, the mag and the music, still I am happy for DA, and yes of course I will buy that rag in Dec... now why is Jars of Clay on the cover? 
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Yeah, I think this says it all... Dennis.
DA get's exposure and recognition for some mythical, CCM Hall of Fame... the inaugural band I guess to be inducted - and they still aren't "pretty" enough to garner a cover!
I don't get it... oh, I'll pick up CCM - but I don't get it.
I disdain everything about the CCM indu$try.
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dit, dit, doo
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11-19-2003 17:12 |
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Squidzit
Platyhelminth
Registration Date: 05-14-2003
Posts: 6,235
Location: Be the change you wish to see in the world
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| quote: |
Originally posted by freak
I disdain everything about the CCM indu$try. |
That's a pretty wide net there. 
__________________
"Why a four year old child could understand this...
run out and get me a four year old child, I can't make heads or tails of it."
~Groucho~
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11-19-2003 19:17 |
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You Gotta Be There
unregistered
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I have my beefs about CCM Magazine, the commercialism and shallowness; but still, there is a lot of good in the magazine too. I haven't bought an issue in a long time; but it does look like December 2003 is one that I will be picking up.
I don't understand people here who say that they hate CCM music. Taylor's music is Christian and its contemporary; and there's nothing wrong with that. Many/most of the great hymns were once contemporary as well as Christain.
What I think people really mean to say is that they don't like music that sounds like it came out of a factory. Plenty in CCM are guilty of that; and plenty in the secular market are guilty of that, too.
What, I believe, we mean to say, is that whether the music is by a Christian or not, we like the music to be a genuine and honest expression, rather than some kind of commercial formula.
Thankfully, Taylor's projects are true art that cannot be labeled as factory music; and they usually push the artistic envelope both lyrically and musically.
I'm looking forward to the CCM issue and what they have to say. I wonder if there will be an extensive interview with Terry Taylor for it? Seems like there should be.
ygbt
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11-19-2003 21:50 |
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freak
Ceremonial Kernel
Registration Date: 11-13-2003
Posts: 1,171
Location: memory lane
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I understand that music is Christian and Contemporary... and I like music that is Christian and at one time was Contemporary (ccm)... I enjoy much music that is Christian...
But CCM is also an industry - and as an industry... this machine is attempting to forecast new trends and dress up dolls and boys (just check out Michael W. Smith from his first Album to Go West Young Man - pretty drastic change) to capture the attention of the youth and capture the newly married, and many other niche markets. The industry uses the term Christian - but they might as well be Epic Records or any other... it is one more case where Christendom has mirrored the world... rather than built a music ministry that mirrors the values of the Kingdom. What comes out (in most cases) is anything but authentic - instead we get plastic smiles; cliche' lyrics; and something that sounds like everything else on the radio - if smashmouth is popular on the "secular" radio - then the CCM industry has to churn out a "christian - sanitized smashmouth like band... to ride the smashmouth trend - so rather than allowing bands to create their own sound - the industry it appears to me reacts to what is happening in the world - rather than be out on the edge and creating new sounds, approaches and what I consider authentic music... The exceptions are so obvious - Delirious hits out of no where and on their own merit - little marketing, etc. are an overnight phenomenon; Burlap to Cashmere, Chevelle, Jars of Clay... each of these bands when they emerged - were the genuine result of Christian people creating their own sound - untouched by the machine of CCM... and the results were so refreshing (there are many good people with good intentions in CCM - I am sure - from artists to producers to front office types - but in my estimation the philosophical ideaologies are flawed).
That is what is so refreshing about a DA - they have been in, but not of CCM - they have remained unique; authentic; real and extremely creative. They do represent what could be in music that reflects our faith...
__________________
dit, dit, doo
This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by freak: 11-20-2003 06:41.
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11-20-2003 06:16 |
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freak
Ceremonial Kernel
Registration Date: 11-13-2003
Posts: 1,171
Location: memory lane
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Squidzit
| quote: |
Originally posted by freak
I disdain everything about the CCM indu$try. |
That's a pretty wide net there.
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Yeah, Squidzit - that is another beautiful and brilliant example of overstating the case!
one of my trademarks... 
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dit, dit, doo
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11-20-2003 06:42 |
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PuP
Moderator
Registration Date: 07-09-2003
Posts: 11,774
Location: The DAmb Home for Wayward Sons and Fragile Daughters
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| quote: |
Originally posted by freak
they have been in, but not of CCM |
Well-spoken! The whole post was good, but I especially liked this point. 
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"At times this board is a place of thought provoking discussions, but most often it resembles a not quite done Mexican taco." - Jevon the Tall
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11-20-2003 07:07 |
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Squidzit
Platyhelminth
Registration Date: 05-14-2003
Posts: 6,235
Location: Be the change you wish to see in the world
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| quote: |
Originally posted by freak
I understand that music is Christian and Contemporary... and I like music that is Christian and at one time was Contemporary (ccm)... I enjoy much music that is Christian...
But CCM is also an industry - and as an industry... this machine is attempting to forecast new trends and dress up dolls and boys (just check out Michael W. Smith from his first Album to Go West Young Man - pretty drastic change) to capture the attention of the youth and capture the newly married, and many other niche markets. The industry uses the term Christian - but they might as well be Epic Records or any other... it is one more case where Christendom has mirrored the world... rather than built a music ministry that mirrors the values of the Kingdom. What comes out (in most cases) is anything but authentic - instead we get plastic smiles; cliche' lyrics; and something that sounds like everything else on the radio - if smashmouth is popular on the "secular" radio - then the CCM industry has to churn out a "christian - sanitized smashmouth like band... to ride the smashmouth trend - so rather than allowing bands to create their own sound - the industry it appears to me reacts to what is happening in the world - rather than be out on the edge and creating new sounds, approaches and what I consider authentic music... The exceptions are so obvious - Delirious hits out of no where and on their own merit - little marketing, etc. are an overnight phenomenon; Burlap to Cashmere, Chevelle, Jars of Clay... each of these bands when they emerged - were the genuine result of Christian people creating their own sound - untouched by the machine of CCM... and the results were so refreshing (there are many good people with good intentions in CCM - I am sure - from artists to producers to front office types - but in my estimation the philosophical ideaologies are flawed). |
Actually, you could substitute "churches" for "CCM" in most of this. This sounds to me, for the most part, like what some churches do.
| quote: |
Originally posted by freak
That is what is so refreshing about a DA - they have been in, but not of CCM - they have remained unique; authentic; real and extremely creative. They do represent what could be in music that reflects our faith... |
Da is creative because they have talent. I don't know if you're a musician, but writting a song is not an easy task. Even a bad one. And recording for BD's More Negative Fruit album showed me how hard it is to record a song and get it to sound 1/2 decent. Although I don't like the sound that most "CCM" bands produce, I can't bash them too bad if I can't do better. They have a place in this world, just like big mega churches and small store front churches. And I know lots of people think that "CCM" is just for the mindless masses, but if not for "CCM", what would they listen to? Britney? 
__________________
"Why a four year old child could understand this...
run out and get me a four year old child, I can't make heads or tails of it."
~Groucho~
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11-20-2003 08:06 |
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audiori
Administrator
Registration Date: 03-12-2002
Posts: 11,145
Location: Missouri
Thread Starter 
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Joey T.
yes, ccm does suck and DA is not ccm.....
did the band have a say on this? i would think that terry would have politely declined.......... 
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Nope. Terry's the one that let us know. I think they're
pleasantly surprised by the "Hall of Fame" thing...
CCM Magazine is not good or bad regardless of
its content... CCM Magazine is good or bad *because*
of its content. When its all the Tuxedo Clad Megastar all the time - no
thanks. If it's big articles on DA... sure, I'll buy that one.
Enjoy it while its good.
__________________
"Blessed is he who expecteth nothing, for he shall enjoy everything" -St. Francis of Assisi
"A strange fanaticism fills our time: the fanatical hatred of morality, especially of Christian morality." - GK Chesterton
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11-20-2003 19:49 |
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Joey T.
Tallowy Tamale
Registration Date: 03-13-2002
Posts: 7,777
Location: you can't fire me, 'cuz i quit! - Kurt Cobain....
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| quote: |
Originally posted by audiori
| quote: |
Originally posted by Joey T.
yes, ccm does suck and DA is not ccm.....
did the band have a say on this? i would think that terry would have politely declined..........
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Nope. Terry's the one that let us know. I think they're
pleasantly surprised by the "Hall of Fame" thing...
CCM Magazine is not good or bad regardless of
its content... CCM Magazine is good or bad *because*
of its content. When its all the Tuxedo Clad Megastar all the time - no
thanks. If it's big articles on DA... sure, I'll buy that one.
Enjoy it while its good. |
ok... to tell you the honest truth, i've never even looked at one... guess i will have to with this one.... 
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11-20-2003 19:54 |
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dorfsmith
Grand Encephalon
Registration Date: 03-24-2002
Posts: 28,142
Location: Everybody needs a persicom
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The CCM arguement is getting old. Lets just say that I hate an industry that sells Christ. I like music that many Christian musicians make.
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http://www.google.com
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11-20-2003 22:41 |
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jwaltb
Mind Peach
Registration Date: 04-23-2002
Posts: 167
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I subscribed to CCM for a long time way back when. They actually were pretty good at one time in my opinion, but their focus seemed to be going more and more mainstream commercial so I quit reading a few years back. One thing that's sure..... it's good to hear it's now being run by someone with this guy's background. It'll be worth watching anyway. And as for this article - I see it as all good! Congratulations, Daniel Amos and all related!!! You guys definitely deserve it and I hope it opens many a door. Maybe even prompt a new album in the months ahead????? I could handle that.
JB
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11-21-2003 06:41 |
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PuP
Moderator
Registration Date: 07-09-2003
Posts: 11,774
Location: The DAmb Home for Wayward Sons and Fragile Daughters
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| quote: |
Originally posted by dorfsmith
The CCM arguement is getting old. Lets just say that I hate an industry that sells Christ. I like music that many Christian musicians make. |
I can agree with this statement.
__________________
"At times this board is a place of thought provoking discussions, but most often it resembles a not quite done Mexican taco." - Jevon the Tall
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11-21-2003 07:33 |
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HEMISPHERICALHEADS
Ceremonial Kernel
Registration Date: 06-07-2003
Posts: 2,324
Location: Motor City
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| quote: |
Originally posted by freak
I understand that music is Christian and Contemporary... and I like music that is Christian and at one time was Contemporary (ccm)... I enjoy much music that is Christian...
But CCM is also an industry - and as an industry... this machine is attempting to forecast new trends and dress up dolls and boys (just check out Michael W. Smith from his first Album to Go West Young Man - pretty drastic change) to capture the attention of the youth and capture the newly married, and many other niche markets. The industry uses the term Christian - but they might as well be Epic Records or any other... it is one more case where Christendom has mirrored the world... rather than built a music ministry that mirrors the values of the Kingdom. What comes out (in most cases) is anything but authentic - instead we get plastic smiles; cliche' lyrics; and something that sounds like everything else on the radio - if smashmouth is popular on the "secular" radio - then the CCM industry has to churn out a "christian - sanitized smashmouth like band... to ride the smashmouth trend - so rather than allowing bands to create their own sound - the industry it appears to me reacts to what is happening in the world - rather than be out on the edge and creating new sounds, approaches and what I consider authentic music... The exceptions are so obvious - Delirious hits out of no where and on their own merit - little marketing, etc. are an overnight phenomenon; Burlap to Cashmere, Chevelle, Jars of Clay... each of these bands when they emerged - were the genuine result of Christian people creating their own sound - untouched by the machine of CCM... and the results were so refreshing (there are many good people with good intentions in CCM - I am sure - from artists to producers to front office types - but in my estimation the philosophical ideaologies are flawed).
That is what is so refreshing about a DA - they have been in, but not of CCM - they have remained unique; authentic; real and extremely creative. They do represent what could be in music that reflects our faith... |
Good responses FREAK..
I agree..Good music is supposed to be art..Most CCM is not art.Most secular is not art..People in this postmodern society don't understand what good art is. They think Brittney running around showing us her jewels is artistic? People are very shallow in these days..There is not a whole lot of depth in anything anymore. Rather than reading Ravi Zacharias or C.S. Lewis we would rather read the "left Behind Series" and consider it masterpiece.
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11-21-2003 07:42 |
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Squidzit
Platyhelminth
Registration Date: 05-14-2003
Posts: 6,235
Location: Be the change you wish to see in the world
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Good music is supposed to be enjoyed. As long as someone is doing that, the artist has done their job. Not matter the reason they like the music. You better believe a lot of people think DA is just a rip off band. I read an article in Rolling Stone once comparing every style that Terry went through to some other band. They completely dismissed him! So do we think he's great still? I do!! 
__________________
"Why a four year old child could understand this...
run out and get me a four year old child, I can't make heads or tails of it."
~Groucho~
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11-21-2003 08:03 |
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DaLe
Official Impasto
Registration Date: 03-19-2002
Posts: 2,717
Location: MiNNeSoTa - HeRe we put salt on the Roads... Lord, Help me be Salt of the Earth - NoT Salt in the Wound. so, take most everything I SaY HeRe with a grain of Salt !
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| quote: |
Originally posted by audiori
CCM Magazine is not good or bad regardless of
its content... CCM Magazine is good or bad *because*
of its content. When its all the Tuxedo Clad Megastar all the time - no
thanks. If it's big articles on DA... sure, I'll buy that one.
Enjoy it while its good. |
a well balanced, sane statement.
... who let You onto this DAmb thing
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11-21-2003 08:06 |
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jiminy
Tallowy Tamale
Registration Date: 11-16-2002
Posts: 9,494
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if smashmouth is popular on the "secular" radio - then the CCM industry has to churn out a "christian - sanitized smashmouth like band... to ride the smashmouth trend -
TOTALLY agree-
but let me offer an interesting perspective-
When I was in MSR (Maximum Security religion) all through the 80s..a long tale..
I listened exclusivly to CCM - I STILL am "catching up" with some of the great music I missed (c'm on now , there was some...)-
I never bought CCM music back then thinking- "they sound like"-
though now looking back I hear the Springsteen in Stonehills "Wild Frontier"
or the Police/Elvis Costello sounds in the early 77s.
I didnt know the Choir was sounding like the Cure- I didnt listen to the Cure. (I do now baby-..)
But I think that artists influence artists-
(Stryper/Foriegner..hello???)
the reason DA did a Talking Heads tune at CS84 is simple- TH was the bomb -
so to "borrow" a style is done everywhere- thats why you had 19 boy bands 2 years ago- and none today.
I Agree that Christian Music tends to offer "sanitized" versions of whats popular- but to a portion of their unsuspecting audience- they just may think its new and fresh.
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jiMinY
theres nothing to EVER put here that will please everyone-let alone anyone.
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11-21-2003 08:08 |
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Squidzit
Platyhelminth
Registration Date: 05-14-2003
Posts: 6,235
Location: Be the change you wish to see in the world
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| quote: |
Originally posted by jiminy
(Maximum Security religion) |
LOL!!
I did my time too baby! 
__________________
"Why a four year old child could understand this...
run out and get me a four year old child, I can't make heads or tails of it."
~Groucho~
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11-21-2003 08:13 |
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JR88
Disjasked Lerna
Registration Date: 05-01-2003
Posts: 4,896
Location: The Earth Household.
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| quote: |
Originally posted by audiori
CCM Magazine has been a mixed bag over the years of course..
just like CCM music.. however, remember that there are some great
artists and bands within the industry and CCM Magazine has featured
interviews and stories on some amazing artists over the years
including Cockburn, U2, Sam Phillips, TBone Burnett (heck, he used to
write for the magazine if I remember correctly), Tonio K, Mark Heard,
Buddy & Julie Miller, DA, Lost Dogs, Rich Mullins, etc. If it wasn't for
CCM Magazine, I probably wouldn't know who some of these folks
were. One of the former guys from Squint is now running things at
CCM... they may get back to covering some good artists again. This
DA story is a good start.
For good or bad, DA has always been a part of the CCM industry and,
in my opinion, they represent what is good about the CCM market... in
many ways, they helped start it. Its good that they're getting some
attention and recognition for what they've contributed with the Hall
of Fame.
Don't throw the good out with the bad, folks. |
| quote: |
Originally posted by audiori
| quote: |
Originally posted by Joey T.
yes, ccm does suck and DA is not ccm.....
did the band have a say on this? i would think that terry would have politely declined..........
|
Nope. Terry's the one that let us know. I think they're
pleasantly surprised by the "Hall of Fame" thing...
CCM Magazine is not good or bad regardless of
its content... CCM Magazine is good or bad *because*
of its content. When its all the Tuxedo Clad Megastar all the time - no
thanks. If it's big articles on DA... sure, I'll buy that one.
Enjoy it while its good. |
well said audiori
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11-21-2003 08:19 |
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RE: CCM or ccm