 To burn or not to burn |
jc
Luteous Llama
Registration Date: 03-13-2002
Posts: 383
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tell which goo was CDs and which
was Hershey Bars?
bet they tasted a bit off.
JiMiny
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08-30-2002 10:53 |
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audiori 
Administrator
Registration Date: 03-12-2002
Posts: 11,145
Location: Missouri
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On a serious note, while driving Terry from the airport
to Cornerstone this year he asked me about this very
subject. He asked me if the whole Pirated albums thing,
was really rampant. He is very concerned, and actually
said he might write something to post to ask for support
from the DA fans. (I think he has been too busy lately
with the new Dogs record.)
Our discussion didn't even get into the legal side of
things, it centered more around how many potential sales
he might be losing.
First, let me cateorize the terminology so we don't have
any misuderstandings like we did on the DaDL.
A Bootleg, typically is a live tape or demo tape or
something that was never released in the first place,
and is never intended for manufacture and release.
Bootlegs get traded around a lot, and most of these bands
don't care since it's usually something they didn't want
to release anyway.
A Pirated CD or album is an exact copy of an album, with
or without artwork. There are a couple subcatagories of
the Pirated album.
A: A copy made for a friend, to turn them on to the band.
B: A copy of an out of print thing, so you can listen to it.
C: Copies of in print or out of print stuff, that someone
is selling themselves on a website, ebay or whatever.
D: Copies of in print or out of print entire albums on a
FTP or website that potentially millions of people have
access to.
E: Copies (mp3) of one song up on websites or FTPs.
F: Backup (Not really a pirated CD since it falls
under the fair use act.)
Nobody is real concerned with (A), and (B) is pretty much
over looked, we would hope you would buy the thing if it
goes back in print and most DA fans would want the real
thing. (C) and (D) are big problems, especially if the
album is in the webstore as we speak. And (E) is very
overlooked, one song is a good sample, etc. (F) is
allowable.
Terry was concerned with the Pirated albums in section
(C) and (D). Terry has no other job, he has dedicated
his life to his ministry, any loss of sales directly
effects him. We get irritated at the fans if they don't
see that. Most DA fans are very supportive, and I told Terry
it's really only a problem with a couple people. The real
problem is a couple people can do a lot of damage today with
the use of the internet.
I also told Terry the fans with the FTP sites are not trying
to hurt him, they are usually tring to be helpful to the
other fans. They just don't understand or see the other side
of things.
I also used the example of Weird Al, his fans websites
used to have a banner at the bottom where they all
agreed to not put up sound clips from his albums to show
support. I don't think the banners still on all of them,
but they don't put up anything that could hurt his sales.
DA's fansites don't to my knowledge put up any albums right
now. But there are other people's sites selling CDR copies
and making money off DA and Terry. This is a serious issue,
not only the damage of loss of sales, but potentially very
ugly bad quality CDs out there that some fans that don't
know better might think is an actual release.
hope this helps..
jason t
__________________
"Blessed is he who expecteth nothing, for he shall enjoy everything" -St. Francis of Assisi
"A strange fanaticism fills our time: the fanatical hatred of morality, especially of Christian morality." - GK Chesterton
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08-30-2002 12:07 |
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dorfsmith
Grand Encephalon
Registration Date: 03-24-2002
Posts: 28,142
Location: Everybody needs a persicom
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If sites are selling CDR's why can't someone shut them down. They need to do some hard time.
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08-30-2002 14:40 |
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audiori
Administrator
Registration Date: 03-12-2002
Posts: 11,145
Location: Missouri
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Actually thats happening. JT told us of a couple
sites that the http://www.RIAA.com has
actually started going after. They started with Napster
since it was the biggest (and they were making money from it through advertisers), but they are working their way
down to places like AudioGalaxy, etc.
They are concerned with the legal side of things, and
protecting the investments of the artists, producers,
and labels.
I am not going to argue for them, but again they are mainly
concerned with the (C) and (D) section of the pirated
album sites. Napster fits into that catagory only because
you could potentially download entire albums and they made no effort to limit it to legal authorized MP3s.
The only part of this side we are really concerned with is
that for example, Dan Michaels of Galaxy21 is the
distributor for "Mr Buechner's Dream" and "Golden Fields."
He has money invested in being the distributor, he does
a pretty good job handling that and advertising for the
albums which in turn is good for the band. Napster or
whoever doesn't have the legal right to distribute those
albums.
A few years back there were arguments about the sale of
used CDs in the same vein. But from my perspective, that
is different because lets say one guy buys "MBD" and doesn't
like it because he is a moron... he sells it or gives it
to another guy who likes it. It's still one sale for us,
because the first guy doesn't have it anymore.
Or if say you buy 2 CDs from us and keep one and sell the other to someone, it's still 2 sales for the band.
jason
__________________
"Blessed is he who expecteth nothing, for he shall enjoy everything" -St. Francis of Assisi
"A strange fanaticism fills our time: the fanatical hatred of morality, especially of Christian morality." - GK Chesterton
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08-30-2002 15:03 |
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jc
Luteous Llama
Registration Date: 03-13-2002
Posts: 383
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DAMBers
as you know-
I have traded an OOP for an OOP (DA material)and even swapped a 1 for 1 that I could have bought (try not to any more)
and admittedly- have retrieved mp3s of DAs stuff.
i do not make it available for others netwide.
I have also purchased re-issues at times (VH is one example-from the Stunt site back when)
I think in support of the band- to buy from their webstore when you can is best (I slipped up on MBD)- because they get more "residual" than say CHristiandiscs or one of the others.
Since I dont live in "sinless perfection" (see the dump)
I am diligently working on this issue-and must confess when it comes to the Beatles and U2-well, I throw scruples out the window (or at least put it on the sill)
but the little (big) guys -Dr Love-Choir, TST et all and others, I realize it DOES make a difference for their livelyhood.
(btw -forking over for ONE Macca concert would give ANYONE the right to rip everything you can for free from that point on.)
Thx for the honest words- I'd read em again if Mr T posted (oh please please please)
we love ya
JiMiNy CRICket
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08-30-2002 15:07 |
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audiori
Administrator
Registration Date: 03-12-2002
Posts: 11,145
Location: Missouri
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Yup, I am in the same catagory. I have collected bootlegs
for years (the live stuff). And I did have a tape of
Adam Agains "10 Songs" for a long time, but I did buy it
when it was available at Cornerstone. I had a tape
of the UK "Horrendous Disc" until I finally bought the
record. I collected tapes of radio shows, etc.
And the fact is a lot of released stuff has come from
fans bootlegs ("Preachers From Outer Space" and "Live
Bootleg '82" CDs for example.)
There is a balance to all of this. As a collector, and a
fan, I want to get copies of anything I can. As a fan I
want to be as supportive as possible to Terry and DA.
Most DA fans are like that I think.
I just want everyone to know what exactly is a problem and
what is not. Hopefully, I've explained it in a way that
makes sense. It's hard to defend the bands interests and
not come off as being totally against all copying. Or
at least accused of that.
jason
__________________
"Blessed is he who expecteth nothing, for he shall enjoy everything" -St. Francis of Assisi
"A strange fanaticism fills our time: the fanatical hatred of morality, especially of Christian morality." - GK Chesterton
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08-30-2002 15:29 |
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dorfsmith
Grand Encephalon
Registration Date: 03-24-2002
Posts: 28,142
Location: Everybody needs a persicom
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I buy everything Terry does from the webstore if it's there. ebay or pawn shops or radrockers if it's not. Everytime I find a DA fan at another board I tell them to go to this site and check out the great deals. I have burned copies of CD's for friends but they were always out of print rare ones. My CD's mean a lot to me so often I burn a copy to keep in the car. Then I find myself driving with somebody and they ask who is this and I say Daniel Amos and they say it's so cool and I end up giving them the disk. I know you don't have too much of a problem with that kind of burning and I think that it can have a good impact as I tell the new "fan" that there is much more DA stuff at danielamos.com.
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08-30-2002 15:36 |
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audiori
Administrator
Registration Date: 03-12-2002
Posts: 11,145
Location: Missouri
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Right, thats like catagory (A).... to turn a friend
on to the band.
If you give em one, maybe they will come buy more..
if you gave them copies of every album.. then they wouldn't
ever have to come here and buy anything. There is a
balance.
Early in my DA fandom days I did the exact some thing.
jason
__________________
"Blessed is he who expecteth nothing, for he shall enjoy everything" -St. Francis of Assisi
"A strange fanaticism fills our time: the fanatical hatred of morality, especially of Christian morality." - GK Chesterton
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08-30-2002 15:43 |
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Gamgee
Ceremonial Kernel
Registration Date: 03-14-2002
Posts: 1,060
Location: Somewhere out there...
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Sales are good... 
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08-30-2002 16:15 |
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Mark
Moderator
Registration Date: 03-18-2002
Posts: 9,525
Location: Grand Encephalon - Words have their place but live what you say God can have His way when you hit them with Love
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Yes, but are they good?
In other words hopefully they are selling lots and lots to make more money to make more music.
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But never, never pin your whole faith on any human being: not if he is the best and wisest in the whole world. - C.S. Lewis
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08-30-2002 16:19 |
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dorfsmith
Grand Encephalon
Registration Date: 03-24-2002
Posts: 28,142
Location: Everybody needs a persicom
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When I get stuff on sale I buy twice as much because I feel like I'm getting such a great deal. Next week I'm ordering WEWH and maybe some shirts.
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08-30-2002 17:07 |
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brdhsnyrsoul
Ceremonial Kernel
Registration Date: 08-20-2002
Posts: 2,155
Location: the funky western civilization
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Speaking of CDs. I understand why someone would make back-up copies for themselves. They were supposed to be these indestructable things that would outlast vinyl and cassettes and whatnot, but they seem so fragile. A little piece of dust, a fingerprint, whatever and they start skipping or not being read by the player at all. I take out some of my old CDs from time to time and am amazed that they won't play anymore. Even though they've been sitting in the CD case all that time. Any one else notice this or am I doing something wrong? I never touch the CD surface.
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08-30-2002 17:29 |
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Mark
Moderator
Registration Date: 03-18-2002
Posts: 9,525
Location: Grand Encephalon - Words have their place but live what you say God can have His way when you hit them with Love
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| quote: |
Originally posted by brdhsnyrsoul
Speaking of CDs. I understand why someone would make back-up copies for themselves. They were supposed to be these indestructable things that would outlast vinyl and cassettes and whatnot, but they seem so fragile. A little piece of dust, a fingerprint, whatever and they start skipping or not being read by the player at all. I take out some of my old CDs from time to time and am amazed that they won't play anymore. Even though they've been sitting in the CD case all that time. Any one else notice this or am I doing something wrong? I never touch the CD surface.
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I never have a problem and I don't touch the CD. However, I do have one Geoff Mann & Marc Catley CD that appears to be gold (I'm sure it's not really). Anyway it appears to be changing color. This worries me. It plays fine now, but who knows about later.
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But never, never pin your whole faith on any human being: not if he is the best and wisest in the whole world. - C.S. Lewis
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08-30-2002 18:15 |
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Mark
Moderator
Registration Date: 03-18-2002
Posts: 9,525
Location: Grand Encephalon - Words have their place but live what you say God can have His way when you hit them with Love
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True gold CD's such as Mobile Fidelity will not corrode. Only aluminum discs corrode. That is one of the benefits of gold. However, then they double the price of the CD.
__________________
But never, never pin your whole faith on any human being: not if he is the best and wisest in the whole world. - C.S. Lewis
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08-30-2002 18:20 |
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anne
A Hot Wolly
Registration Date: 03-13-2002
Posts: 490
Location: loveland
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i just downloaded the new u2 song electrical storm.
i still haven't figured out how to burn downloaded songs onto cds, though. 
duhhh i'm stoopid! 
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08-30-2002 18:54 |
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Mark
Moderator
Registration Date: 03-18-2002
Posts: 9,525
Location: Grand Encephalon - Words have their place but live what you say God can have His way when you hit them with Love
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Their second greatest hits is supposed to be released on both CD and DVD in November.
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But never, never pin your whole faith on any human being: not if he is the best and wisest in the whole world. - C.S. Lewis
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08-30-2002 19:23 |
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)
