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Audiori J Audiori J is a male
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Yeah thats kind of the point I was trying to make. To please everyone you have to do a million different things. Some people want mp3s, not the majority, some people want the CDs.. they are the majority. Some people want the bonus tracks and special artwork, some people don't care about that. Some people are willing to wait for the special editions, and some people aren't. So on and so on. There is no one answer that pleases everyone. And when you are trying to make enough money to keep the band making music, you have to at some point say.. I can't please everyone but I have to please as many as I can.

If we make a special edition of an album on CD, and a bare bones edition and a download of the same thing.. we don't expect everyone to buy all three, they are basically intended to please different groups. We will most liekly support the ones that are the most successful, so if one of these options really doesn't bring in any money.. then taht option might be dropped if its an expense.

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My only qualm with all this is that by offering three different versions, aren't you splitting the budget three ways and, invariably, making reissues more expensive to start up?
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Not if it was worth it and there was an audience that wanted it... the biggest expense is just in obtaining the rights and in the production. Once its done, its not too difficult to keep it in print. The Deluxe Editions are somewhat expensive to keep around - partly why DA30th is out of stock at the moment... it would be very easy however to print a single disc, scaled back version.

Its just not that clear that there would be a demand for it.... if theres no demand for it, then it would be a waste of money. And of course, we'd rather just have the regular Deluxe Editions. It was just something that came up not long ago and I've been curious about.

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Just my 2¢ for whatever it's worth:

I am a physical copy kind of a guy, but I do enjoy my MP3s so I can dump a bunch of music on a flash drive and listen to it at work. I value my collection of "evil" five inch CDs. Yes, I do buy a lot of digital tracks, but like another poster said then you have to worry about the expense of backing it up. And I like to back things up at least twice, not once.

Most of what I buy digitally is music by artists I am marginally interested in and to me it's not much different than when I was a kid recording music I was marginally interested in off the radio. For the artists I REALLY like, I seek out the physical product as well. And with CDs, I rip the songs to MP3, but at least my back up is the physical copy of the CD.

If you all chose to re-release the Daniel Amos album as a regular one disc, I would pass. I would pay a hundred dollars and line the pocket of somebody on Ebay to get the deluxe edition before I would pay ten dollars for a single disc.

But I do have another question that delves into a bit of a different area: What is this THREE disc edition I see online of the Daniel Amos Anniversary CD?

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When we made the Deluxe Anniversary Edition of the first DA album we edited more than enough stuff for a second disc, we ended up with 3 discs worth of material. We intended the release to be 2 discs, so we gave away the third disc of extra stuff to those that preordered. Kind of a little bonus to those people that preorder and help make things happen.

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Knowing nothing about this kind of thing, can you offer downloads right through this site?

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I'm buying new music on either vinyl or download. If neither is available, and it's something I want, I'll buy it on CD. But, going through my CD's recently (and seeing a lot of CD rot on discs that were over 10 years old), I'm not interested in it as a format any more. As far as downloads go, I back them up on an external hard drive.

For example, I haven't bought the DFBB reissue yet, but I did get the download via e-music. They, however, don't have the second disc (at least they didn't when I checked last). I will eventually get it on CD, but only because it's DA. I'd absolutely be thrilled to see DA downloads, and vinyl as well, although my guess is that I won't see that. But can you imagine MBD on a four or five record set? I can! Big Grin

I think fans understand why you guys put out what you do and in the format that you do, and usually will buy it.

As far as reissues go, I'll buy the deluxe editions, and single disc editions only if that's what is available. I currently don't have Shotgun Angel, The Alarma! Chronicles, DFBB, Kalhoun, Motorcycle, Bibleland, Let's Spin or Outdoor Elvis on CD (but I do have SA on vinyl, which I intend to ask Terry to sign when he comes to my church in August!)

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quote:
Originally posted by Audiori J
When we made the Deluxe Anniversary Edition of the first DA album we edited more than enough stuff for a second disc, we ended up with 3 discs worth of material. We intended the release to be 2 discs, so we gave away the third disc of extra stuff to those that preordered. Kind of a little bonus to those people that preorder and help make things happen.


I really hope when it looks like it's coming back in stock you offer the third disc again with a new pre order special. I completely missed out on this, and would gladly pay for whatever to get it all.

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quote:
Originally posted by Audiori J
Even in regard to Darn Floor, which Arena Rock got into the Best Buy, etc computers... the question is, were there more sales because it was there or not? How many people dig through the Best Buy computer and special order stuff they never heard of?

I finally bought the DFBB reissue when Amazon shoved it at me while I was ordering God's Not Dead (and Neither Are We). I had been intending to order it, but hadn't gotten to it until then.
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I think Mark's point above, third paragraph is true.

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Thanks, Ron!

quote:
I really hope when it looks like it's coming back in stock you offer the third disc again with a new pre order special.


I missed out on this, and it would be great to have downloads if only for stuff like this: outtakes, rare stuff that DA owns the rights to, etc. Even if it were part of a fan club where you got so many downloads, that is something I would really enjoy!

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Yeah I think most do. There are a few that don't get it, but they are a small minority.

Terry's career is a huge puzzle. He has been so true to following where his creative mind goes that its almost impossible to market him to any one particular market. I emailed him recently talking about this subject.

Its kind of odd, but as most people know artistry and money are pretty much unknown to each other. If you think about it, business works hard to make money by appealing to the general market as much as possible. The American Idol schlock is a perfect example, it is a business engineered to make Simon Cowell rich, period. Its flashy, pop, cute, etc.

But if you are a real artist, you stretch the envelope. Your goal is to go where no one has gone before and chart new waters. By doing that, you are purposely not appealing to that general market bubble. You are purposely doing what doesn't make money, really, because you believe in doing something new even if its not popular.

For someone to manage a band like DA, when a managers job is to try and push the band to the general market and make money, is really to push the band in the opposite direction from which they are going. The two goals are at odds.

My brother and I, understand what most fans of DA do... that these guys are not rich, they are not going to be, and we all get it. We understand what Terry and the gang are doing and we believe in it so much that we try and help them generate money while at the same time not pushing them to appeal to the general market like a manager would.

Stay on the cutting edge, ahead of your time, and we will try and market all this weird stuff in every way we can, even if it means doing different things to please different subsets of fans.

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God bless you for that. You're right, Wal-Mart has no place for Uncle Terry.

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Honestly, I think the "bare bones single disc" idea would be a waste of time and money. I just don't see enough people being interested in that option for it to be financially worth it. Most of us DA/Terry fans are hardcore, and (speaking for myself, anyway) will always opt for the deluxe version of an album when it's offered.

Also, I personally don't buy digital download versions of albums. I love CDs. I will always love CDs. I'm all for you guys "deluxing" the heck out of the back catalog, and encourage you to cram each release with as many bells and whistles as possible.
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quote:
Honestly, I think the "bare bones single disc" idea would be a waste of time and money. I just don't see enough people being interested in that option for it to be financially worth it. Most of us DA/Terry fans are hardcore, and (speaking for myself, anyway) will always opt for the deluxe version of an album when it's offered.


I was thinking this way as well. I don't know that there are that many new/casual fans of DA when compared to those who would buy deluxe sets.

Perhaps downloads would be the way to sell something to new listeners.

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The hardcore diehard fans are a pretty small subset of the total fanbase actually - although, its a very important part that keeps things moving most of the time.

The fan base tends to break down by style or time period. We can see this primarily in how many names we add to our database from the sales of each type of release.. as an example, something like the DA30th release sold primarily to people that have not purchased any of the other titles. Some asked about SHotgun Angel.. some said they were old Calvary Chapel fans who had been looking for that album for a long time. We were concerned that it might not sell well since it was an unpopular album with most of our regular customers.. what ended up happening was that we added on a whole new group of folks that weren't there before.

It sort of breaks up like this..

Group A: Fans that like the early country stuff
Group B: Fans that like Shotgun Angel
Group C: Fans that like Horrendous Disc
Group D: Fans that like the 80s new wave/punk/rock stuff
Group E: Fans that like newer DA stuff
Group F: Fans that like the Swirling Eddies
Group G: Fans that like Terry Solo albums
Group H: Fans that like Lost Dogs albums
Group I: Fans that like the NEverhood stuff
Group J: The hardcore fan

They split up even more when you add in other variables like DVDs or concert discs... something like the Anaheim 85 DVD will only sell to a portion of groups A, B, C and D - plus a good part of Group J. Something like a Dogs DVD may sell to a portion of Group H, some of Group J, and a few random pieces of the other groups. Midget will sell to largely Groups F, E and J.

Group J is obviously the primary target audience for Deluxe Reissues. Those are the folks taht you see on the Damb, the DADL and at Cornerstone for the most part.. although it is larger than any of those groups. I guess my fear was that we may be leaving out some parts of the other groups who maybe don't care about the extras and just want the album they remember from years ago.

Thats why its difficult to try to bring each group what they're looking for. All we can really do most of the time is just bounce around from one group to another.. something Neverhood related, to something 80'sish, to somethign new, to something country, etc. Thats also why its hard to put a number on the entire size of the fanbase... any attempt to do so - especially based only on the sales of a single release - is overlooking a lot of data. We can put a number on the total number of customers we've had - but even that is only a portion of the fanbase, as some do not have the internet and only buy at live shows, etc.

Probably the best thing to do would be to go ahead and do the Deluxe thing and just try to keep the price as low as possible. That kind of kills two birds with one stone.

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quote:
Originally posted by DrDanAmos
quote:
Originally posted by Audiori J
When we made the Deluxe Anniversary Edition of the first DA album we edited more than enough stuff for a second disc, we ended up with 3 discs worth of material. We intended the release to be 2 discs, so we gave away the third disc of extra stuff to those that preordered. Kind of a little bonus to those people that preorder and help make things happen.


I really hope when it looks like it's coming back in stock you offer the third disc again with a new pre order special. I completely missed out on this, and would gladly pay for whatever to get it all.


how much would you REALLY pay for the 3-disc edition? if you have hundred(s) of dollars to line pockets with ... send a PM and i should get it in the next week or so or whenever i get back on here again ... disc 3 is really neat, unique early stuff for the die-hard fan, but be forewarned : it is poor audio quality but not bad considering it mostly came from old tapes never meant to be released.

i wished i had bought extra now, but cest-la-vie! Frown

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quote:
Originally posted by audiori
The hardcore diehard fans are a pretty small subset of the total fanbase actually - although, its a very important part that keeps things moving most of the time.

The fan base tends to break down by style or time period. We can see this primarily in how many names we add to our database from the sales of each type of release.. as an example, something like the DA30th release sold primarily to people that have not purchased any of the other titles. Some asked about SHotgun Angel.. some said they were old Calvary Chapel fans who had been looking for that album for a long time. We were concerned that it might not sell well since it was an unpopular album with most of our regular customers.. what ended up happening was that we added on a whole new group of folks that weren't there before.

It sort of breaks up like this..

Group A: Fans that like the early country stuff
Group B: Fans that like Shotgun Angel
Group C: Fans that like Horrendous Disc
Group D: Fans that like the 80s new wave/punk/rock stuff
Group E: Fans that like newer DA stuff
Group F: Fans that like the Swirling Eddies
Group G: Fans that like Terry Solo albums
Group H: Fans that like Lost Dogs albums
Group I: Fans that like the NEverhood stuff
Group J: The hardcore fan

They split up even more when you add in other variables like DVDs or concert discs... something like the Anaheim 85 DVD will only sell to a portion of groups A, B, C and D - plus a good part of Group J. Something like a Dogs DVD may sell to a portion of Group H, some of Group J, and a few random pieces of the other groups. Midget will sell to largely Groups F, E and J.

Group J is obviously the primary target audience for Deluxe Reissues. Those are the folks taht you see on the Damb, the DADL and at Cornerstone for the most part.. although it is larger than any of those groups. I guess my fear was that we may be leaving out some parts of the other groups who maybe don't care about the extras and just want the album they remember from years ago.

Thats why its difficult to try to bring each group what they're looking for. All we can really do most of the time is just bounce around from one group to another.. something Neverhood related, to something 80'sish, to somethign new, to something country, etc. Thats also why its hard to put a number on the entire size of the fanbase... any attempt to do so - especially based only on the sales of a single release - is overlooking a lot of data. We can put a number on the total number of customers we've had - but even that is only a portion of the fanbase, as some do not have the internet and only buy at live shows, etc.

Probably the best thing to do would be to go ahead and do the Deluxe thing and just try to keep the price as low as possible. That kind of kills two birds with one stone.


That's a great concise summary. I never thought of some of those points before, from the band point of view. Thanks. Not that it affects us, but it makes things clear, at least for me.

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well ... i do agree there are variable buying segments ... but the first thing that came to my mind upon seeing such was "analysis paralysis" Red Face Big Grin

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Not at all.

Terry and Mike don't pay attention to stuff like this, but we have to. When you have a limited budget, information like this helps you to prioritize and make the most of it.

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