 Jevon the Tall unloads on LITTLE, big  |
jiminy
Tallowy Tamale
Registration Date: 11-16-2002
Posts: 9,494
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Originally posted by PuP
^ Great 1st post!
I haven't heard lB, so I can't vouch for you or Jevon but, welcome aboard! |
AGREE!
I too - have never heard lB- but I WILL vouch for you and J the T- just to keep harmony in the universe.
Fair enough?
(sorry pup- I had to do it- but you can be the positive, and I'll be the negative-sending a balance of electrons- )
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jiMinY
theres nothing to EVER put here that will please everyone-let alone anyone.
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10-27-2003 12:37 |
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PuP
Moderator
Registration Date: 07-09-2003
Posts: 11,774
Location: The DAmb Home for Wayward Sons and Fragile Daughters
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Kind of a "good cop, bad cop" deal?
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"At times this board is a place of thought provoking discussions, but most often it resembles a not quite done Mexican taco." - Jevon the Tall
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10-27-2003 12:41 |
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Jevon the Tall 
Woolly Eggwhisk
Registration Date: 03-13-2002
Posts: 943
Location: "You're not from around here are you?" said the stranger to the little man in the wool sweater who looked vaguely like a sheep. Maybe it was the long boots but he was kind of cute. "What's your name?" he asked "My friends call me Theo." he replied
Thread Starter 
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See, I'm not crazy.
I never once said that Terry's not a great writer. His longer fiction isn't as tight - ready the bookset. But in the space of three minute pop songs the man is pretty amazing.
I think FS by DA is one of the best albums ever, which has a lot of Rob. Terry's solo stuff with Rob is more spotty. But hats off for trying to stretch.
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10-27-2003 12:44 |
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jiminy
Tallowy Tamale
Registration Date: 11-16-2002
Posts: 9,494
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| quote: |
Originally posted by PuP
Kind of a "good cop, bad cop" deal? |
THATS RIGHT STARSKY- ER i MEAN hUTCH.
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jiMinY
theres nothing to EVER put here that will please everyone-let alone anyone.
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10-27-2003 14:04 |
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FaintScentsOfSewage
Mind Peach
Registration Date: 09-26-2002
Posts: 107
Location: Where the sun is hot and the retirees roam free
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10-27-2003 21:11 |
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PuP
Moderator
Registration Date: 07-09-2003
Posts: 11,774
Location: The DAmb Home for Wayward Sons and Fragile Daughters
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Pardon me, Mr. Sewage, but are you expressing disapproval at 70s police dramas, consciences in the form of insects, or this thread in general?
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"At times this board is a place of thought provoking discussions, but most often it resembles a not quite done Mexican taco." - Jevon the Tall
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10-27-2003 23:07 |
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carl
Platyhelminth
Registration Date: 03-15-2002
Posts: 6,960
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 Rather late to this game, but.... |
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....FINALLY picked this up at the Dogs concert last Thursday, along with Mutt. To be honest, I like this the better of the two. Still, it crystallized a lot of what I've been feeling both positively and (to be honest, more so) negatively about Terry's music over the past year. So, here's what's in my my head; chop away....
Overall Thoughts:
1) Two themes seem to dominate this CD, both of which we've heard before on recent CDs: a) the ordinary/extraordinary (Buechner); b) his dad (who died since Avocado Faultline, but was very much alive on "Olvera Street"). That's not a complaint in itself, just an observation. Although re: (a), I think that's been a big problem with my getting into the latter-day Terry; he used to spend a lot more time talking about the BIG things (even while admitting his own failure in being able to do so), and the little things added texture and credibility to what he was saying. It's not quite the same when everything's about the little things. (OK, not everything, but a whoooole lot more of it.) Perhaps I'm just missing the extraordinariness of that, and that's fine, but I think that does kind of get at my problem.
2) I get the criticisms of the sound and/or its datedness here, but there are places where even the cheap Casios work really well, which I'll get to.
3) A recurring problem I've had with Terry's solo stuff (although less so here, for the most part) is that it seems like the more personal he gets, the more self-conscious and out-of-sorts/character he sounds. It definitely detracts from the songs for me. Not that I don't sympathize -- I have the same issues when it comes to my own songwriting -- but that doesn't make the results any more enjoyable. Again, less so here, but there ARE occasions where it jumps out at you.
4) Is it me, or has Terry's singing style become much more offhand as of late? Only one song here really guilty of that ("Oh, Sweet Companion"), but several of Terry's vocals on Mutt come off the same way (esp. "The Lust..." & "I'm Setting You Free...") It's probably not, but it sounds disinterested to me.
5) Boy, am I tired of all these EPs (although it has to do more with all the other ones than this one in particular). At least Keaggy puts out too many FULL-length CDs for his own artistic good these days. Either way, that wacky-fan "nobody wants to hear everything that comes into yr head" thing once more comes into play here (just as Love Song & 2nd Chapter of Acts play into Nazarene Crying Towel, I guess 
) ANY full-length CD would be welcome at this point. Yeesh, even the last two Dogs albums fit quite comfortably on a single CD-R.
6) All that said, this is a good one. Again, listening to this just crystallized a lot of what I've been thinking the past year or so, and thus not everything I've just said has as much to do with Lb as it might sound. I guess the full-length Big isn't to be, and that's too bad, because I like where this was headed.
So, to the songs:
LITTLE, big -- I like this one a lot. And the juxtaposition of the "little" Casios with the "big" orchestral sounds just underscore the point of the song. Not to mention the pretty danged devastating punch line about his dad. Great opener; again, makes me wish there'd be a full-length CD for it to open.
Molly Is A Metaphor -- Forget you punks; this is the best thing on the CD. Who cares if it's about his @#&@# cat? I love this thing musically, in all it big, honkin' baroque Smile-ness. We're talking transportational device here, people. And it's a KICKIN' metaphor, I'll have you know, so everybody's wrong there too. 
Lovely Lillie Lou -- This was the only one I'd heard before (on My CAACONAA), and as I mention much earlier on this thread it didn't inspire me to track this down. Now that I have it in its original context, I appreciate it more. The keyboards do get kinda cheesy and/or 80s-like here, but it's enjoyable; my wife was singing along to this the first time she heard it (here, that is).
Oh, Sweet Companion -- The one bum song here. See General Points #3 & 4 for details. The faux-U2ish background swelling stuff doesn't help at all either. What is this, a Choir song?
"Blowing Smoke" was much better.
Rob's and Carolee's -- This one's a bit unfinished/sloppy, but there's enough interesting stuff going on here musically to keep me sucked in. Nice segue, too, into....
Mama's In the Desert, Daddy's in the Sky -- I'm not quite as blown away by this song as most others appear to be (yet) -- and I really don't dig the fake-angel background vocals -- but there's some pretty intense stuff going on here lyrically. Particularly the closing verse:
And our Papa's up there waiting
I've seen him in a dream
And for all us desert nomads
there is a living spring
So Mama don't be crying
we'll all get there by and by
Soon we'll leave our dry-bone deserts
to meet our Father in the sky
She says she knows Dad isn't there but
it helps her to get by
There's three ways to translate those last two lines, and only one of them isn't harrowing: 1) It's a reprise of the last two lines of the opening verse, referring to his dad being in the ground (but not really), which seems rather careless after the lines that just preceded it; 2) His Mom doesn't believe his Dad's in heaven (Terry's testimony to the contrary notwithstanding); 3) His Mom doesn't believe (in our Father in the sky) at all (which would make you wonder what her reaction was to this song either way). Not meaning to get ugly here, but since it's obviously a personal song it can only really be analyzed from that perspective.
Anyway, that all oughta invoke SOMEthing....
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07-14-2004 13:35 |
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Joey T.
Tallowy Tamale
Registration Date: 03-13-2002
Posts: 7,777
Location: you can't fire me, 'cuz i quit! - Kurt Cobain....
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07-14-2004 13:54 |
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jiminy
Tallowy Tamale
Registration Date: 11-16-2002
Posts: 9,494
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still have not heard
lB-
so no comparison.
I've voiced my whaffers on Mutt-
interesting insights from CS
as far as length of material- I dunno - I like short - I like long- I like good- I dont like bad, and long bad is about as bad as it gets....
CS- perhaps you are getting weary and disinterested crossed.....
try singing as 50 nears (or comes and goes)
friend, generally- it aint the same.
thats why his lines in Aint gonna fight it brought a shiver- not a quiver.
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jiMinY
theres nothing to EVER put here that will please everyone-let alone anyone.
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07-14-2004 14:08 |
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Mountain Fan
Ubique Epoque
Registration Date: 10-09-2003
Posts: 14,224
Location: NC, Alive and Kicking, BOBD
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| RE: Rather late to this game, but.... |
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Originally posted by carl
...
Anyway, that all oughta invoke SOMEthing....
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Carl, there's not that nice of a way to say it...
You're just plain weird! (as if i'm not).
Oh, Sweet Companion and Mama's in the Desert, Daddy's in the Sky are the best songs on that EP! 
Molly is a Metaphor is OK and all, but the BEST? YEESH! You would think you were a big Choir fan or something!
Terry's vocals on The Lust... and I'm Setting You Free don't sound disinterested to me. In fact, I am actually growing to like this version better than Mike's original version! 
You can go back in your cave now! 
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Got a few miles left ...
Make sure you have heard a Kind Word! 
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07-14-2004 14:12 |
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carl
Platyhelminth
Registration Date: 03-15-2002
Posts: 6,960
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| quote: |
Originally posted by jiminy
as far as length of material- I dunno - I like short - I like long- |
So do I, just not short and short and short and shorter....
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| I like good - I dont like bad, and long bad is about as bad as it gets.... |
Hey, I was trying to keep the Prickly Heat stuff OUT of this conversation.... 
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CS- perhaps you are getting weary and disinterested crossed.....
try singing as 50 nears (or comes and goes)
friend, generally- it aint the same.
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Yeah, but I thought the beauty of modern technology was that you can keep splicing in vocal tracks even while y'r catching yr wheezing breath....
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07-14-2004 14:17 |
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jiminy
Tallowy Tamale
Registration Date: 11-16-2002
Posts: 9,494
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[I]Hey, I was trying to keep the Prickly Heat stuff OUT of this conversation.... [I]
that was an LOL!
quote:
CS- perhaps you are getting weary and disinterested crossed.....
try singing as 50 nears (or comes and goes)
friend, generally- it aint the same.
[I]Yeah, but I thought the beauty of modern technology was that you can keep splicing in vocal tracks even while y'r catching yr wheezing breath.... [I]
well - i recall folks thinkin that on SOTH that Terry had plain blown a vocal chord or two- perhaps its a style thing- I will admit that Derri sounds so good on MUtt- right? - I'm sure thats what you were thinking.....
and hey! - Weird has a place here
- just ask _________ (fill in appropriate sane name)
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jiMinY
theres nothing to EVER put here that will please everyone-let alone anyone.
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07-14-2004 15:22 |
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jiminy
Tallowy Tamale
Registration Date: 11-16-2002
Posts: 9,494
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carl-
in your corner here will freely admit that the worst line in Mutt
is found on TLTFTE&TPOL is
BAM!
its more like b..a...m.....
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jiMinY
theres nothing to EVER put here that will please everyone-let alone anyone.
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07-14-2004 15:38 |
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bereal
Ubique Epoque
Registration Date: 03-08-2004
Posts: 11,824
Location: "I still love Jesus, I'm just afraid of His followers." DwDunphy
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| quote: |
Originally posted by jiminy
I will admit that Derri sounds so good on MUtt- right? - I'm sure thats what you were thinking.....
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That had to be what carl was thinking! 
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Holy God break me, Holy Lord take me
Lay your crushing hand, Your mighty hand, On me gently
Your crushing hand, Your mighty hand, On me gently
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07-14-2004 15:44 |
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audiori
Administrator
Registration Date: 03-12-2002
Posts: 11,145
Location: Missouri
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We were talking about this a couple of days ago..
Terry's version of "The Lust... " sort of sounds
introspective or retrospective to us... more than Mike's.
Kind of like Terry's sitting there thinking back over
the past and singing these words. The phrasing
of it seemed weird at first, but the more we hear
it - thats the way it sounds to us.
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"Blessed is he who expecteth nothing, for he shall enjoy everything" -St. Francis of Assisi
"A strange fanaticism fills our time: the fanatical hatred of morality, especially of Christian morality." - GK Chesterton
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07-14-2004 15:47 |
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audiori
Administrator
Registration Date: 03-12-2002
Posts: 11,145
Location: Missouri
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A couple of thoughts, first on not liking the cheaper
albums or EPs.... the guys cannot make expensive
full albums if the funds are not there. The funds are
not there if people don't buy. The new Eddies album
comes to mind.
To the people that do buy and support, you are keeping
the guys doing what they do. If you encourage others
to buy... then you help the guys produce more expensive
full albums. Then you and we get what we want.
As for Little Big and the solo albums vs. the DA albums and
Dogs and Eddies. With DA, the themes are big metaphysical
ideas and metaphores. With his solo albums the themes are
geared toward Terry talking about his own life, friends and
family. I like both, I think I appreciate the DA albums more
having gotten to know Terry actually goes through life struggles
as expressed in his solo albums. To me they express his faith
in God even through the hard times, and even in the little
day to day issues. The song "Fingerprints" on Buechners
Dream actually touches on this theme in a more general
less personal way. Talking about seeing God's fingerprints
in and on lifes trials and blessings. You see it in the little
things, the still small voice. The solo albums are basically
like letters from Terry.
Now, on to style.. Terry tends to adjust the style and his
singing to the project he is working on. He has always
done that, that variety is one of the things I have always
liked. He has exposed me to styles that I otherwise would
not accept. Outdoor Elvis is nothing like Little Big, they
both are nothing like Lost Dogs, all of those are nothing
like Darn Floor... etc. If you don't like the style of a certain
project that is fine, don't worry the next project (if history
teaches us anything) will be completely different.
Little Big in particular, to me the style fits the themes Terry
happened to be writting about in his "letter to family and
friends" ....had he done those themes in some sort of
Eddies weird music, it would not have worked. There is
a time and place for that, but this is not the place. This
pretty much had to be sacarine, sweet, simple music because
the themes were such. That doesn't mean he will always
do music like this.... he never has really repeated himself
yet. The closest two maybe Knowledge & Innocense and
Briefing For The Ascent.. but really they too are not exactly
the same.
Do we reall want Terry or DA putting out the same type
of music over and over?
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"Blessed is he who expecteth nothing, for he shall enjoy everything" -St. Francis of Assisi
"A strange fanaticism fills our time: the fanatical hatred of morality, especially of Christian morality." - GK Chesterton
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07-14-2004 15:58 |
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jollyholiday
Mind Peach
Registration Date: 03-18-2002
Posts: 244
Location: The Village
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| RE: Rather late to this game, but.... |
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Originally posted by carl
I guess the full-length Big isn't to be, and that's too bad, because I like where this was headed.
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I agree. I would have liked to have heard "Big."
-jolly
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07-14-2004 16:17 |
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audiori
Administrator
Registration Date: 03-12-2002
Posts: 11,145
Location: Missouri
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Yeah I am not sure about that one, we can ask Terry.
Sometimes the management made promises of things
that didn't always have the details ironed out.
Good intentions can sometimes go unfulfilled.
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"Blessed is he who expecteth nothing, for he shall enjoy everything" -St. Francis of Assisi
"A strange fanaticism fills our time: the fanatical hatred of morality, especially of Christian morality." - GK Chesterton
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07-14-2004 16:28 |
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dorfsmith
Grand Encephalon
Registration Date: 03-24-2002
Posts: 28,142
Location: Everybody needs a persicom
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I don't care what Carl says, I want to hear everything that comes into Terry's mind
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07-14-2004 19:06 |
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RE: Rather late to this game, but....
