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Thread: Horrendous order
Audiori J

Replies: 4
Views: 423
03-05-2020 12:28 Forum: General Discussion


I don't have any information on Terry's kickstarter other than what they send out as updates.

We will check on that order.

Posting on the board vs sending the form is really just about organizing so we make sure the message gets to the right place. We used to have people post on the boards, send questions to email discussion lists, send emails about orders to band members or booking people or the manager. Most of these methods never made their way to us. Or one of these people would try to answer without access to the actual order information. We had one band member in one band answering these questions by saying he didn't know why we had not shipped such and such yet.. when we actually had.

We check the board frequently but not as often as the site email, plus with email we can regulate all the order questions to one folder and keep track of them. Here we might see it and forget about it by the time we get home from work or back to filling orders where we have access to order info. Or the thread gets buried.

We also used to have people post simply "where's my order" with nothing that we could actually use to find out who they were, what the order number was or what they ordered.

Occasionally something gets lost in the mail, especially with international orders. And occasionally there can be some hang up with the credit card transactions, a typo or something. And occasionally the credit card transaction place has some hiccup where the invoice email doesn't ever get sent to us.
Thread: Horrendous order
Audiori J

Replies: 4
Views: 423
03-05-2020 11:29 Forum: General Discussion


Yeah we will check on it. Was it the record set or CD set?
Thread: Terry's Patreon is boomin with greatness
Audiori J

Replies: 3
Views: 661
02-15-2020 08:09 Forum: General Discussion


Absolutely.

The Avocado Club from what I understand now was the brainchild of the then manager. (At them time he would always present these things to us as if the band/Terry was all in.) He wrote the press releases (which included "all kinds of grandiose plans" like reserved seating at shows) and he was in charge of the material that was on the releases and how they were printed. We'd send out the press releases from him, take the orders when he said everything was ready we'd send him the dough and then wait for him to send us the discs to send out. And when I say wait, I mean waaaaaaaaiiiiiit... which meant the club members waaaaaaaiiiiiittted as well.

(Footnote any time T-shirts were promised it worked this same way. The manager would promise them, we'd take the orders and send him the money and he would have them shipped to us about a year late if at all... and we'd have to find the money to ship them all out. Worked like a never oiled machine left out in the rain in a pond.)

Terry wasn't even really 'in on' what was on the discs I don't believe, he was kind of in the dark from what I understand. The manager used some songs Terry demo'd as a song writer for a publisher he was working for at the time and printed those on the discs. Eventually he sent them to us as discs on a spindle. We had to come up with some kind of artwork and send them out and apologize to everyone for the looooong wait.

Apparently the manager at the time made it seem to Terry that we were behind the Avocado Club and when he quit we were accused of not paying the CD printing bill. (We had no idea who even printed them.) When we found out we asked for the invoices from him which all had the managers address on them. This is also how the 77s club worked by the way, although Mike may have had more input on what was on the CDs and what the artwork would look like.

The clubs were a failure. A few interesting CDs came out of it but everything that made them happen was majorly broken.

Patreon is all Terry and Andrew. It's what the Avocado Club should have been. A precursor to it was his Basement "Swine Before Pearl" Demos series he did a few years ago. With that series we basically thought he could produce his own 'Basement Tapes' like Keaggy had done over the years and it was planned it would continue. But Patreon is even better as the money goes directly to the artist and there is a lot less overhead since you are not manufacturing and shipping stuff. Terry is in full control of how it goes which is exactly how it should be. A lot more stable and creatively alive.
Thread: Babies!
Audiori J

Replies: 7
Views: 686
02-05-2020 22:11 Forum: General Discussion


On Horrendous Disc Mark gets zapped by the UFO and leaves the band.
On Alarma Marty turns to salt and leaves the band.

Hmmm.....
Thread: Lost Dogs - LRRH, 25th Anniversary Kickstarter
Audiori J

Replies: 39
Views: 8,472
12-17-2019 19:37 Forum: General Discussion


The Horrendous Disc box set is the last thing I am going to work on and I wasn't even going to do that but sort of got pulled in. At this point I pretty much regret even doing that.
Thread: Daniel Amos - Horrendous Disc Deluxe
Audiori J

Replies: 309
Views: 226,157
10-11-2019 12:18 Forum: Upcoming Releases


Yeah I think (my opinion) what sounds better to different people has a lot to do with opinion laced with nostalgia. I've never been one of those people that bought the analogue is better than digital thing. I get what they are saying in that digital has a limit to it's audible range and analogue has in the least a much wider range. The problem is the human ear also has a limit and it's less than the digital limits. So sometimes our biases can fool us.

I basically see it this way (assuming a high quality source recording):

CD/CDR.
Flac.
WAV (HQ).
Vinyl.
MP3.
Cassette.
8-Track.

Some people argue CDRs are worse than pressed CDs, but pressed CDs are taken from CDR masters typically so they shouldn't be better than their source. If anything it would seem CDs would only be as good as the CDR source even considering the potential for being better. I remember having a discussion with some people about a "surround sound" mastered DVD that was taken from a VHS or High8 tape of a concert. How "surround sound" can it actually be without being able to actually mix the audio? At best it's a fake "Surround Sound" of a 2 track recording.
Sometimes I prefer to listen to Vinyl over an MP3 or CD but mainly because I grew up with vinyl and have a certain bias concerning the experience of Vinyl.
For a while I preferred Cassettes over Vinyl mainly because it didn't pop and was portable. But honestly they don't sound better than Vinyl. Tapes age worse with all the hiss and variable speed and warpage and whatnot. Likewise an MP3 is portable and better than a cassette, the portability makes it better than a Vinyl even though it technically sounds worse.
I had 8-tracks back in the day and they were just a big clunky clicky joke.
Thread: Lost Dogs - LRRH, 25th Anniversary Kickstarter
Audiori J

Replies: 39
Views: 8,472
09-22-2019 22:01 Forum: General Discussion


Kickstarter is mainly just a way to produce something that you don't have the money to produce by getting assistance from the people that want to see it done.

Not sure about that Choir idea, interesting concept. Who knows?
Thread: Terry Taylor Kickstarter campaign
Audiori J

Replies: 40
Views: 9,443
09-18-2019 12:30 Forum: General Discussion


quote:
Originally posted by WoaaahJelly!
I suppose what I want to see is my favorite artists happy, healthy, and well-paid for their efforts. It's possible Patreon has enabled this already.


Yeah I think it's the best we've got And we can hope that there aren't any little gossips spreading rumors that the patreon money doesn't reach the artist like we had here concerning the band's site.

The only difference between the two (this site and patreon) is that we paid manufacturing and shipping bills before sending the rest of the income to Terry, etc. and Patreon just goes to Terry without any manufacturing or shipping bills.

Kickstarter as I said before is a different story, you get the money to record, manufacture and ship the product. And then you sell the remaining product and pay shipping and then the remainder goes to Terry, etc. The expenses for Vinyl manufacturing and shipping are very high.

If Terry had an indie label then he'd have to split the remainder, which would be just asinine at this point.

The new Terry solo Kickstarter is being handled by his son Andrew, with help from Tom Gulotta. Not sure how the shipments of product will occur, it costs a small fortune to ship vinyl around. So I don't know if Andrew will ship all the orders out or if they plan on having everything shipped to us and then send us the money to ship it out. I'm pretty much out of the process now, Eric may know.
Thread: Daniel Amos - Horrendous Disc Deluxe
Audiori J

Replies: 309
Views: 226,157
09-17-2019 14:17 Forum: Upcoming Releases


Ten Biggies was one of several 4 track demos that were recorded back then. It seems a couple of those old 4-track demos were dubbed off to a master reel tape and then the 4 track tape recorded over. Luckily in the case of the Ten Biggies the 4 track tapes still exist, so we used that and had them professionally mixed and mastered. Thats why they sound so much better than the other 4-track demos on the CD version. Some of those other demos only have survived in cassette form.

I thought "Taking A Fall" sound a lot like a pre-Daniel Amos Terry track.
Thread: Terry Taylor Kickstarter campaign
Audiori J

Replies: 40
Views: 9,443
09-17-2019 14:08 Forum: General Discussion


I think to answer some of the questions; You saw Daniel Amos, the Choir, Adam Again and the 77's tour much less and the Lost Dogs appear and do the touring. You consolidated at least in part the fan bases of all these bands and they could perform largely without a band. You also saw artists like Stonehill, Keaggy, Larry Norman, and Mike Roe tour with bands less frequently. They can show up with a guitar and put on an amazing show without needing a bus full of people and equipment. Keaggy and Stonehill have followed the ceaseless touring model for a while. So I think this has been happening for many smaller following artists since the mid-eighties. Terry even did some solo touring for a few years. And both (Keaggy and Stonehill) are turning to patron as well.

There are mainstream teen CCM pop (safe) young bands that tour because they have the backing of the labels still. 'I think' the labels are much more picky about which bands they feel they can market than they used to be. Younger and pop, hip-hop or praise, etc generally. CCM Radio and Youth Group friendly or hip enough to book on late night talk shows and tour large concert halls, etc.

This is all entirely my opinion looking at what I know and have experienced.

I also believe the Cornerstone Festival was mismanaged the last few years or so and I think it had a lot to do with misinterpreting the way the market was changing. I know some will disagree with me on this but I really don't care. The fact is the festival died, which is not the outcome of a successfully managed enterprise.
Thread: Terry Taylor Kickstarter campaign
Audiori J

Replies: 40
Views: 9,443
09-16-2019 15:16 Forum: General Discussion


quote:
Originally posted by Ron E
INteresting read here...

http://www.truetunes.com/an-indie-renaissance-part-1-of-3/


When Eric and I volunteered to put some CDs out for Janet Heard, then work with DA, Uncle Stonehill, 77s, and Lost Dogs this was largely the mindset. Some of these artists have been ripped off their entire careers in one fashion or another. Early on they may have had some mutually beneficial relationships with labels, but that was largely due to the market exploding and supporting it through the 70s and 80s. But the market seemed to take some big hits in the mid-80s. Labels pretty much either dropped bands or the bands stopped getting compensated to any degree suitable for continuing. Some artists left the business and got 'regular jobs.' Some continued to tour and put out albums on their own, although quite stripped down. Going from touring with a band and producing music videos to touring solo and having a website for promotion and distribution.

These artists really can't afford working with any kind of label or entity that takes a cut. Anyone who thinks so is majorly deluded. Not to mention at this point there's really nothing that a small indie-label can offer to an indie artist that they can't do themselves. To survive they have to make a few changes beyond dropping the unnecessary middle-man, a couple of which are alluded to in this article. Things like Kickstarter, Patreon and (unfortunately for a while) preorders allow the artist to use the internet to interact directly with the fanbase financially. And secondly it reduces much of the dangers with releasing something in the internet file sharing age by getting much of the funds up front. Because lets face it you can't and nobody will put $20,000+ into an album, print the CDs, start selling them only to have the songs distributed by people on the web killing any more sales.

I would say that from a financial standpoint Patreon is probably better for supporting the artist themselves. Kickstarter is great for producing a large project like a box set or album, but technically you raise what is necessary to produce the album and then ship out the copies people pledged for from the funds. Then you pretty much have nothing left, you generate profit from selling the copies you printed beyond the copies already claimed by the pledgers. And that can be difficult if you have a limited following who have already bought the album through the campaign. Thats actually the way it's supposed to work, which is great for getting it done, but not too great for financial support of the artist. And of course people upload these releases to the web and sales dry up.

These methods have downsides but they are probably the best we've got at this point since the general market has pretty much died.
Thread: Tim Chandler
Audiori J

Replies: 63
Views: 32,264
09-10-2019 10:41 Forum: General Discussion


Tim was a world class bassist literally, at his memorial they talked about how he won some contests even as a kid. Roe doesn't even come close.
Thread: Daniel Amos - Horrendous Disc Deluxe
Audiori J

Replies: 309
Views: 226,157
05-17-2019 19:03 Forum: Upcoming Releases


https://diffuser.fm/laser-turntable/

http://www.elpj.com/
Thread: Looking for Vox Humana
Audiori J

Replies: 25
Views: 20,627
04-15-2019 11:20 Forum: General Discussion


My comment is directed at their supplying a Vinyl plus a CDR rip. They seem to think that falls under fair use but it does not. If you own an original Vinyl you can make a copy or CDR rip and that falls under fair use. A third party cannot legally do it for you, just as you can't take a magazine to OfficeMax and have them copy articles out of it for you. Or if you have professional photos taken most places will not make copies or print them without a release form from the photographer. Unless you paid the photographer extra to own the rights.

What he is doing is selling a Vinyl and throwing in the CDR rip, problem is that would fall under distribution of a copy. Technically he could make copies of the vinyl but he should destroy them when he sells the vinyl not distribute them.

I am not suggesting I have not traded around bootlegs and made mix tapes and such for people over the years. Just saying this guy better be very careful about advertising what he is doing, the wrong person gets wind of it and he could find himself with a lot of legal problems.

Whats weird about this stuff is often it makes no rhyme or reason who companies or entities might go after. Almost like if they just hear about someone doing it and it's been a bad day they go after them. Like they reach a boiling point or something.

Does anyone remember the Vortexx christian rock collector paper that John Brzinsky sent out many eons ago? I was once told someone associated with that tiny rag got burned by some labels and got out of the business. I am also aware of Sam and T-Bone Burnett using some legal action over distribution of some of their stuff once. Who knows maybe they had a lot of trouble with that stuff a while and then the unfortunate guy came up on their radar.
Thread: Looking for Vox Humana
Audiori J

Replies: 25
Views: 20,627
04-05-2019 14:07 Forum: General Discussion


I think he is a little confused on his understanding of copyright law concerning his 'Digital Transfers.' A lot of people are confused about it, and I was for a time.

While it's true that under "fair use" a person can make a rip or backup of copyrighted material they own for certain purposes. It is copyright infringement for an unauthorized third party to copy, distribute, perform, publicly display, or create something new from copyrighted material even if 'for free' and others on the internet are doing it. He does state it's a 'service.' I think technically he should destroy the backup when selling the original. There are also some differences concerning various forms of digital media like software, DVDs, books, etc.

His website is so small I doubt any copyright holder would go after him, they tend to go after people making money off the copies. But I have heard of it happening even to small entities in this sub-market. I personally know of one artist that went after someone for infringement and distribution, and I think M8 got into some hot water over some of that stuff. And many years ago some labels went after a guy who had a collector newsletter, he subsequently quit the business.
Thread: Tim Chandler
Audiori J

Replies: 63
Views: 32,264
03-09-2019 17:00 Forum: General Discussion


Thats the one they played at the memorial service.
Thread: Spotify "This is DA" playlist
Audiori J

Replies: 5
Views: 4,929
01-11-2019 18:23 Forum: General Discussion


I'd drop skeptics song, losers and winners and new testament best and add staggering gods and I love you #19 and Man on the Moon.. but thats just my taste.
Thread: Tim Chandler
Audiori J

Replies: 63
Views: 32,264
10-20-2018 15:29 Forum: General Discussion


I remember feeling fairly devastated when Mark heard died. And when Rich Mullins died that hit us pretty hard mainly because we had just seen him at Cornerstone playing football with some kids. Both of them were part of that 'cornerstone-ish' community of people. We met Rich very briefly a couple of times, didn't really come close to 'knowing him.' We had hung out with Tom Howard briefly a time or two and when he died it still felt like a punch to the gut.

When it came to Larry Norman and Gene Eugene they were different for us, mainly because we knew it was coming with Larry and never got to know Gene really at all.

But I think a lot of it has to do with all of us being part of a weird little community or 'family,' these artists have/had special unique relationships with their fans. That and the fact that their music is personal and real as opposed to CCM fluff. We all empathize and relate to what they say through their songs and often most of us are square pegs or outsiders as well. The type of people cornerstone was made for.

It's like losing a brother, uncle or cousin.
Thread: Tim Chandler
Audiori J

Replies: 63
Views: 32,264
10-13-2018 05:33 Forum: General Discussion


quote:
Originally posted by Ron E
I'm not on Facebook anymore. Is there more information out there about either a fundraiser or what happened , etc?


All I've seen and heard was that Dan Michaels said Tim's health had been failing for a while now and that he died in his sleep. He wasn't found for a few days because he wasn't living near his family, he was in Illinois.
Thread: Tim Chandler
Audiori J

Replies: 63
Views: 32,264
10-12-2018 07:08 Forum: General Discussion


If you know the date of the show we can add it to the timeline. We rely heavily on people to give us information, Jerry gave us a lot of old dates and CCM had a bunch in the 80s but not all of them.
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