Daniel Amos Message Board | Print: Loose Ends

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Posted by Audiori J on 02-23-2006 at12:31:

Yeah I agree. Its an unfortunate reality of life that even the inspirational medium has to make money to continue. Its all part of being in the world and having to work for food.

Posted by voxrob on 02-23-2006 at14:15:

Driving towards two goals

>>"I cant think of another driven market that is trying to influence people the way that Christian Music supposed to be."

And I think this was a problem with the ccm of the 70s, and perhaps even now... it was trying to serve two masters -- to be pop/rock music and also to communcate a message. Because of the communication issue, Christian "rock" always sounded different -- because the lyrics needed to be understood and comprehensible. It was always tamer (and some might say, "lamer").

The protest folk music in the early 60s had the same twin goals -- try to be popular (but only to a certain point) and also to communicate a message. I'm not sure how many people they converted -- I suppose most people who listened to that music alot already agreed with those points of view. But look what happened to someone like Bob Dylan -- he needed to branch out, become more creative, and the protest folk music was simply too confining. And all hell broke out when he plugged in that guitar because he wanted to be an artist.

Posted by Mark on 02-23-2006 at20:35:

You do know that another collection is posted and is already up to $125 with over 4 days left?

These Loose Ends CD's have been posted and sold numerous times over the past couple of months.

Posted by samson on 02-23-2006 at22:26:

The qustion is how does one keep the older stuff a live put in the hand of the one that never heard of it, if raido wont play it and a CD is not going to happen then what are you will to do to keep it a live , have we ( the ones that love and rember Christian Music the way is supposed to be) have be come the hands and feet???? ...

any thoughs??????

Posted by dfroystad on 02-24-2006 at03:55:

quote:

Originally posted by Audiori J
beeheaded. Roll Eyes

Maybe Terry should start selling them himself. Frown

is there any thing that keeps him from doing that ? copyrights etc ?

Posted by Audiori J on 02-24-2006 at09:46:

Well, the loose ends CDs were stunt approved bootlegs to begin with, stunt could approve some other people to bootleg em. Cool

Which it looks like we should do, someone is probably just making copies over and over and selling em.

Posted by Audiori J on 02-24-2006 at09:48:

quote:

Originally posted by samson
...and a CD is not going to happen... any thoughs??????

I think they will happen. We are determined they will.

Posted by Mountain Fan on 02-24-2006 at10:45:

RE: The dilution process

quote:

Originally posted by DwDunphy
Christian music, such as it is, is out in the public sphere. You have your P.O.D.s, Switchfoots and all making music on major labels. However, you also have a sense of dilution going on, where these groups feel they have to swing a bit to be hip.

I was so disappointed when P.O.D. did an on-air on a local rock radio station... It was probably two or three years ago... and the topic of conversation was whether they and the D.J. would pop in the Paris Hilton sex tape for another peek. I understand that in the real world, these conversations do happen, be they serious or in jest. I'm not asking for Christian musicians to purport to be completely blameless and saintly, but there are limits. This was a crossed limit and, no. I would not be able to take them at face value again, no matter how hard they slam the praise.

It also bothers me that, year by year, songs like The Eddies "The Twist" become increasingly impossible to put out there because its too rocky to be Christian but too Christian for the teens to swallow.

I'm a killjoy, I know.

Maybe there's too many Christian bands trying to be the next Beatles or something? At least they're not doing Creed-type stuff (we hope). Roll Eyes

Posted by Mountain Fan on 02-24-2006 at10:46:

quote:

Originally posted by Audiori J
Well, the loose ends CDs were stunt approved bootlegs to begin with, stunt could approve some other people to bootleg em. Cool

Which it looks like we should do, someone is probably just making copies over and over and selling em.

Well, it appears there is quite the economic incentive and money is not going to Terry. Frown

Posted by Audiori J on 02-24-2006 at11:10:

Yeah that can change. Wink

Posted by bigdork.2 on 02-24-2006 at16:24:

quote:

Originally posted by Audiori J
Well, the loose ends CDs were stunt approved bootlegs to begin with, stunt could approve some other people to bootleg em. Cool

Which it looks like we should do, someone is probably just making copies over and over and selling em.

that's what I have...

boots of the original(?) boots.

At the time I thought they were just like any other boot out there for trading and I think they still get traded quite a bit.

Posted by audiori on 02-24-2006 at16:40:

quote:

Originally posted by Audiori J

quote:

Originally posted by samson
...and a CD is not going to happen... any thoughs??????

I think they will happen. We are determined they will.

Yeah, we're really in a unique spot to do it now.

In the past, there were occasions where we would hear rumblings of reissues.. and then nothing would happen. Then, we'd hear KMG or somebody was going to reissue stuff.. then nothing would happen. For the first time since our involvement with the guys, it looks like it will actually happen. Several things have changed in the last year and a half or two years... for starters, the DA store is in better shape financially than it ever was before - which of course helps fund new releases and tape restoration. For the first time *ever*, we actually have a budget to work with! Terry's in a pretty good spot as well with Catscratch.. and he's also pretty determined to see it happen as well. He's been throwing some interesting ideas our way about future reissues, and digging through old tapes and photos to find bonus material. There are still some issues to deal with on certain titles, but we're all pretty determined to make it happen one way or another.

Posted by samson on 02-25-2006 at23:12:

quote:

Originally posted by audiori

quote:

Originally posted by Audiori J

quote:

Originally posted by samson
...and a CD is not going to happen... any thoughs??????

I think they will happen. We are determined they will.

this is all good to here, the nex qustion is when will this happen to someone like Randy Stonehill and maney others how do we help them when they cant even get there hands on there own Music and it harder to find old copies of it
every day ...

Posted by DwDunphy on 02-27-2006 at19:15:

The Underlying Kvetch

See, this thread has brought out something that drives me nuts. When "Loose Ends" was in the domain of Stunt, that was cool. That meant whatever profit that was gained went back into the system. Now that these apparent knock-offs are on EBay, and doing sickeningly well, that money is going primarily toward someone's greed. I'm hard pressed to think there's a better, underlying spiritual reason.

If only people held back and waited for the 'official bootlegs'... I hope the Audiori will make it happen and shut down the rascals. Think of how wrong it would be if suddenly there were knock-offs of the "HodgePodge" and "Farm Beetles" discs, scooping up massive bids on EBay, after all the struggle and pre-order confusion and such they generated, not to mention the hairline budget they guys had to work with.

Sorry. It just bugs me, thassall.

But if the official Loose Ends happen, can I make a design suggestion? I think the individual CDs should be marginally spare, designed to look like 45 rpm singles and sleeves. This way, should more material be found, cleaned up and/or generated, the individual discs could be collected in a unified, cohesive way. A box, like the old 45 rpm record carriers, could be issued later on to collect them in a snappy way, but again, its an open-ended design to accomodate future releases.

Any thoughts?

Posted by Mark on 02-27-2006 at19:40:

I like your idea about looking like records.

Posted by audiori on 02-27-2006 at21:41:

RIght now, I'm looking for our own copies of the Loose Ends stuff.. I'm pretty sure we had a copy of all of those.

One thought was to put something in the DA Cafe Press store... you can do jewel cases with artwork, etc and the band would get the bulk of the money. Looks like they take more for jewel case/booklet packaging than just simple paper sleeves (with artwork).. but, we could actually offer both options and folks could just buy whichever one they want.

If CafePress doesn't take a huge amount, we could actually put up some of the other lower quality bootlegs that probably won't be released for real as well. We had thought about putting some older oddball things up like Swirling Mellow before..

We could also order some ourselves and stick em up on ebay. Wink

All of this could go towards funding the reissue series.. if sales go well that is.

Posted by DwDunphy on 02-28-2006 at09:19:

You have my support...

If you need tracks that may have slipped out, I could help, though I doubt I have anything you don't already. I've got the Stunt reissues of Alarma and Doppelganger with the extra tracks, the Shirley Goodness / No History set, Miracle Faith Telethon and other things that have trickled out over the years. Again, I'm sure you guys are already well stocked on tracks, but the offer is out there for what it takes to get this together.

Posted by Audiori J on 02-28-2006 at11:28:

Yeah people can email us and let us know what they have, if we don't have access to that material maybe we can use it. If anyone like BigDork has printing ideas or anything like that send us a note, we will gather up all the info we have and bug Terry with it.

We could basically do very low budget bootleg series of some of the stuff, at a low price, try to get Terry to work towards a backroom tracks type of semi-bootleg series with a slight budget and then use this stuff to fund actual releases.

The intent with the backroom tracks idea was to get major fan involvement,
that would be key to its success.

You guys got ideas and things, email em, we will collect them all together.

I do know if anyone starts bootlegging the HodgePodge or Neverhood type stuff they can get themselves in more trouble since technically its owned by Dreamworks/TenNapel. Personally I wouldn't mess with that stuff. Some of these companies are less forgiving than Terry would be.

Posted by Mountain Fan on 02-28-2006 at11:41:

speaking of loose ends ...

On Bob and Tom's great moments in Olympic History they said one of the little-known events that was discontinued was where one team tried to knock a puck into the rear end of the opposing team's goalie.

The event?
"burro Hockey"

Big Grin

... back to the regular program

Posted by DwDunphy on 02-28-2006 at14:30:

Loose Ends idea

Kind of what I alluded to before, the Loose Ends Bootlegs should be simple and cost-effective to produce. Yet, there should also be something that connects them together as a whole for later. This is where the "45 rpm singles" design comes in.

EMI did up these box sets where each disc was a mini version of the vinyl singles release. Then they packed them in a sort-of box. It was pretty neat. I prefer the carrier box that singles used to be stored in in the 60s and 70s; The Smashing Pumpkins mimicked this with their "The Aeroplane Flies High" box set. But the actual box is an afterthought. The individual releases should be a cohesive unit, even if each is sold separately.

Finally, there has to be a way of grouping each release: live tracks from the 70s, live tracks from the 80s, studio tracks from various timeframes.
These are just thoughts, but I think any way this shakes out, two things get accomplished. First, it shuts down booters on EBay and second, it gets some nice new income in from pre-existing material.