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Posted by tchandler on 08-04-2005 at10:14:

 

howdy Jason -- da, of course, has always been very experimental, so it was like that from the beginning (when i started working with them at least) and has become more so over the years of our somewhat-experienced-studio-geezership. the choir works pretty much the same way. (don't say it, carl.)

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Posted by carl on 08-04-2005 at10:19:

A dissertation masquerading as a question

Yo Chandler,

Since the horse's mouth (or at least some other not-so-distant part) is here among us, let me share an epiphany I just had re: another album from the exact same time (hmmm....), and you tell me whether there's anything to it....

It's a combination of the whole distortion thing, as well as trying to find the prerequisite DA skeleton key to Buechner, which is a great collection of songs but for me has always lacked the gestalt of pretty much every other DA album (you know, where it sounds like "an ALBUM" instead of just a bunch of songs on the same CD). Anyway, without further ado....

Found The Waterboys' A Rock in the Weary Land recently. Anybody who's heard that puppy has probably initially wondered, "What the heck is with all the vocal distortion on this thing, anyway? Lemme just hear Mike Scott's VOICE already!" But now that the album's clicking for me, I'm also hearing the places where his voice is coming through clearly, and particularly, WHEN it's coming through clearly.

Think Out of the Silent Planet (not a big leap, since Scott's a HUGE Lewis fan, as is TST.... you can start to see where I'm going....) -- you know, the idea that everywhere in the universe the transmissions are coming through just fine. But then there's that pesky Earth....

Thus, where Scott's dealing with his own anger/confusion, it's distorted. On "My Lord, What a Morning," his voice is clear as day. On "My Love Is a Rock in the Weary Land," it alternates between the distorted story of betrayal by his mentor on the verses and the undistorted delivery of the triumphant chorus. "Crown" moves from distortion to clarity in much the same manner. In "Malediction," his voice comes through clearly while the distortion (again, the betrayal) swirls imminently in the background, leading into "Dumbing Down the World" ("recorded in hell" and performed by a cast of Screwtape characters, if you go by the credits) where the distortion is near-overwhelming. You get the idea.

Anyway, when I'm reunited with my copy of Buechner next week, I'm gonna test this theory out there. But is there any further light you can shed on this, past the only other rationale I've heard -- ergo, "Well, Terry was working with Starflyer so I guess he thought he'd try that here too"?

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Posted by tchandler on 08-04-2005 at10:23:

 

hey carl -- are you talking specifically vocal distortion on MBD? explain a little more? (which songs in particular, etc.)

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Posted by Audiori J on 08-04-2005 at10:32:

 

There isn't a lot of vocal distortion on MBD is there?

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Posted by carl on 08-04-2005 at10:56:

quote:

Originally posted by tchandler hey carl -- are you talking specifically vocal distortion on MBD? explain a little more? (which songs in particular, etc.)

Either way. Vocal or musical. Of which there's tons. The closing Buechner suite, "Who's Who Here," "Fingertips," "Thick Skin," yada yada.... although the initial responses certainly suggest my theory ain't gonna transfer over neatly to Buechner....


(it DEFINITELY works for the Waterboys album, though.... I was just hoping that maybe it'd help me finally get over the hump on Buechner.... )

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Posted by tchandler on 08-04-2005 at11:05:

 

i'm gonna have to think about that for a bit, and actually i'd need to hear some of the songs again, but i'll say this: there was a conscious effort to sort of balance the light and dark on certain songs ("this is the one" has the liberace piano thing, but also greg's affected feedback guitar behind it.) the distorted bass is always a conscious decision, but more of a musical one than any sort of statement ... ...(thinking) ...i'll have to listen to some of that stuff again to see if you're on to something.

there are a lot of things that we do in the studio collectively but also separately -- it's possible that terry went about some of what you're talking about, but doing so very quietly. (terry would never say "band, i'm going to have a distorted vocal on this because ....")

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Posted by Audiori J on 08-04-2005 at11:17:

 

I've never really thought about the vocal differences other than maybe a difference of spirit from the perspective of the singer. If that makes sense.
Not really that the edgier vocal is a (anger/confusion, it's distorted) reflection.. bu more that the softer vocals are more coming from a worshipful spirit than the more edgier ones. Sort of like the softer ones are directed at God/loved ones and the harder, edgier vocals are more directed at someone else such as in "Thick Skin". Maybe there is more to it than that, its just how I naturaly hear the songs and have always taken them in.

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Posted by carl on 08-04-2005 at11:54:



Yeah, it could be pure force of emotion and what conveys that best. Have either of you heard the Waterboys' album in question, BTW? I'd swear there's a very conscious choice of production there -- ain't nobody distorts vocals THAT deliberately without SOME reason for it. Again, also interesting that the two albums came out roughly the same time (October 2000 / July 2001).

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Posted by tchandler on 08-04-2005 at12:11:

 

carl -- i've never heard that album but it sounds very interesting.

there's a song on the new choir album that has a multi layered distorto bass thing in the middle, and it was done absolutely because of the lyrical content of the song. but that one probably wouldn't interest you.

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Posted by baxter on 08-04-2005 at12:15:

 

Does this conversation having anything to do with me sending Mike Scott a copy of MBD? He was anxious to receive it, and then i never heard anything after i sent it...

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Posted by carl on 08-04-2005 at12:30:

 

quote:

Originally posted by baxter Does this conversation having anything to do with me sending Mike Scott a copy of MBD? He was anxious to receive it, and then i never heard anything after i sent it...

So, did the lawsuit take or what? Is that why Terry hasn't released a full-length (i.e., longer than Van Halenesque) album since then?

quote:

Originally posted by the bass mammoth who plays for pay elsewhere [quote]there's a song on the new choir album that has a multi layered distorto bass thing in the middle, and it was done absolutely because of the lyrical content of the song. but that one probably wouldn't interest you.

No. It wouldn't.

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Posted by baxter on 08-04-2005 at12:38:

 

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Posted by Audiori J on 08-04-2005 at13:05:

 

I've not hard the Waterboys album, you say the songwriter is a CS Lewis fan? Does it come across in the lyrics?

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Posted by baxter on 08-04-2005 at13:21:

 

It does in this:

FURTHER UP, FURTHER IN

Further up, further in
Further up, further in

I dreamed the wind came to my house
these are the words fell from his mouth
"The King you seek you'll find him true
but only if he rides the road with you"

Further up, further in
Further up, further in

I was sent to the war, stripped of my power
gagged and imprisoned in a tall dark tower
I must have cried for an age or more
till I saw through tears and I found the door

Further up, further in
Further up, further in

I stepped aboard a ship that flew
It took me wherever it wanted to

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Posted by carl on 08-04-2005 at13:23:



Quite often. There's the above "Dumbing Down the World" scenario, as well as tunes elsewhere like "Further Up, Further In," "Church Not Made with Hands" and their big hit "The Whole of the Moon" was supposedly partially for Lewis as well.... Here's a link that helps: http://www.mikescottwaterboys.com/mikescottwaterboys/Archive/Press/presstxt10.htm.

It's been interesting to watch his lyrics move from pagan/mystic to at least verbally Christian over the last 20 years, although interviews bear out that it's more in the Van Morrison-type "God is in all places, and my place just happens to be Christian" sort of way....

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Posted by baxter on 08-04-2005 at13:30:

 

i believe that Findhorn remains Mike's spiritual home. Though they talk a lot about light there, i think it is a dark place. i continue to pray that he finds another home.

http://www.findhorn.org/home_new.php

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Posted by audiori on 08-19-2005 at15:23:

 

Hey guys...

if you've seen the making of Buechner's.... head over to this link and vote on it (write a user review if you'd like). I won't tell anyone how to vote, but if this video gets enough votes it can automatically appear on some "most popular" lists.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0472470/

(Note: They're still adding info... right now they only have two cast members listed... the rest should be on the way any day now).

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Posted by peawinkel on 08-19-2005 at16:19:

 

Done.

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Posted by peawinkel on 08-22-2005 at15:50:

  My Review on IMDb

Here's a link to my comment:

http://imdb.com/title/tt0472470/usercomments-1


Let's all ride the bandwagon & see if we can have some fun with it.

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Posted by peawinkel on 08-23-2005 at12:24:

  9.8 out of 10! Wow!

[quote]Originally posted by audiori
Hey guys...

if you've seen the making of Buechner's.... head over to this link and vote on it (write a user review if you'd like). I won't tell anyone how to vote, but if this video gets enough votes it can automatically appear on some "most popular" lists.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0472470/

Wow! 9.8 ain't too shabby.

They have 12 votes so stop voting unless you're adding another 10 rating.

Check the lists & see where it ranks.