Daniel Amos Message Board | Print: Would CDs on demand ever be considered?

Posted by DrDanAmos on 05-30-2009 at17:20:

quote:

Originally posted by audiori

On selling/buying stuff through ebay or whatever... I don't think anyone has a problem with someone doing it if they want to. I just really hate to see fans spend that kind of money on stuff that will be available again. I can remember hearing from people that bought the first album on Ebay right before it was rereleased. I felt bad for them, but what are you gonna do? It was just bad timing.

I also do not see the point in jacking prices up on something regular. If its a really rare one of a kind piece or something.. fine. But if its a regular album it shouldn't be $200. When it is rereleased, everything there will still be there. I mean its their right to do it, and its fine if someone will pay it.. but I just don't think the sellers should do that to people.

Right. Somebody could take DVDs as an example. An original first edition of a Criterion Collection title, for example, can command a lot of money in the second hand market because it's NOT coming back in print. That same movie re-released by a different studio, even as a two disc special edition, isn't suddenly worth more than the Criterion if it is in print or even if it goes out of print and will come back in print.

But collectors who want the original Criterion will pay a premium. And collectors who want the original Maranatha release of Daniel Amos will pay a premium for it. Personally, I don't see where it automatically makes a two disc edition more valuable, but that's from a collector's POV. Somebody might be willing to pay more for it if they think it's worth that to them.

I don't find fault in the seller for putting up for a high price, if they feel the need to do that. However, I won't purchase it from them.

Posted by wakachiwaka on 05-30-2009 at20:52:

But we're talking about the three-disc set here, not just any general release. So, the question the savvy consumer must ask him/herself is:

Will the rare third disc, which was initially only made available to customers who pre-ordered the 2-disc set, ever be issued again, either for regular sale or as a special incentive?

If not (as seems likely), then MF's estimate of the set's value is justifiable, especially since no official numbers have yet been given on how many of those buggers actually exist. It's that third disc which gives added value to the package. The fact that the extremely rare Limited Edition (5,000 copies) 2-CD reissue of T Bone Burnett's original "Proof Through The Night", "Trap Door", and "Behind The Trap Door" is now going for 200 smackers and up lends some perspective, I think.

MF, if I were only a rich man... Crying

Posted by DrDanAmos on 05-31-2009 at00:41:

quote:

Originally posted by wakachiwaka
But we're talking about the three-disc set here, not just any general release. So, the question the savvy consumer must ask him/herself is:

Will the rare third disc, which was initially only made available to customers who pre-ordered the 2-disc set, ever be issued again, either for regular sale or as a special incentive?

If not (as seems likely), then MF's estimate of the set's value is justifiable, especially since no official numbers have yet been given on how many of those buggers actually exist. It's that third disc which gives added value to the package. The fact that the extremely rare Limited Edition (5,000 copies) 2-CD reissue of T Bone Burnett's original "Proof Through The Night", "Trap Door", and "Behind The Trap Door" is now going for 200 smackers and up lends some perspective, I think.

MF, if I were only a rich man... Crying

1) I missed the part where the poster was trying to sell the three disc...I thought it was the two disc only.

2) Will the third disc be offered again as a new preorder incentive? That is the question...we already got an answer on the two disc. Shoot, even if it was a limited time download available with a password the people got who preordered the two disc when it was released again would be OK by me. audiori?

3) T-Bone does offer some perspective, but so does the promise that DA is going back in print. And I thought about it some more...the set the poster wants to sell is really like the first edition of that print run, so I can understand where that might mean something to a collector. It depends on circumstances and how bad/fast somebody wants the two/three disc set. I don't fault the guy who wants to sell it. These are just some circumstances I would consider before turning over good money for it until we get final word on the future availability of the third disc.

Posted by audiori on 05-31-2009 at01:05:

There is a pretty good chance that those tracks will be available again. Its not something that would take a long time to put together, so it could come back very quickly once everyone was ok with the idea. I don't know exactly what form it would take however.

Posted by wakachiwaka on 05-31-2009 at01:12:

quote:

Originally posted by Mountain Fan
how much would you REALLY pay for the 3-disc edition? if you have hundred(s) of dollars to line pockets with ... send a PM and i should get it in the next week or so or whenever i get back on here again ... disc 3 is really neat, unique early stuff for the die-hard fan, but be forewarned : it is poor audio quality but not bad considering it mostly came from old tapes never meant to be released.

Disc 3 sounds kind of like "Disc 2, part 2" - if there's more historical/anecdotal narration by Uncle Terry interspersed with the nostalgia tracks, then I'd be tempted to part with my hard-earned cash for a hardcore collector's price, if I had any (which, alas, I don't). If not, then my interest would be lessened somewhat. But I'd still probably plonk down ten to fifteen bucks for an official single-disc release of those tracks.

Maybe it'll be re-released along with the 40th Anniversary DVD-5.1-surround-mix edition.

Posted by James on 05-31-2009 at11:40:

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but wasn't the whole point of the third disc to reward and show gratitude to the people who pre-ordered? Kinda defeats the purpose of the whole thing if you're going to give it to everyone else later.

That said, I didn't pay any extra for it and don't really mind if that's what you guys want to do.

Posted by audiori on 05-31-2009 at14:54:

It was a gift.. the main part of that gift was 1) it didn't cost extra, 2) preorderers got to hear it first. (Whats it been now? 2 years? 3 I guess. ). If it were to happen, it wouldn't be released exactly the same as what was sent to preorderers. What they received would stay unique and interesting.

Part of it though, is a little like the 77s Happy Chrimbo being sent to 77s Club members years ago. The 77s had no intention of all of that music staying in fan club limbo. Its a shame not to let the guys make something off of some of that music.

There are no immediate plans to do anything with it. Its just part of a larger goal to bring everything back in one way or another and remove the possibility for bootleggers to make money off of stuff like this.

Nothing is set in stone however. If preorderers are very opposed to the idea of any of that coming out again, send us a PM and let us know.. we'll share your thoughts with everyone. I don't think we could guarantee that none of it would ever come out again, but it still might influence everyones decisions.

Posted by DrDanAmos on 05-31-2009 at15:22:

quote:

Originally posted by James
Not to rain on anyone's parade, but wasn't the whole point of the third disc to reward and show gratitude to the people who pre-ordered? Kinda defeats the purpose of the whole thing if you're going to give it to everyone else later.

That said, I didn't pay any extra for it and don't really mind if that's what you guys want to do.

But would it be available to EVERYONE? Or just offered again as preorder incentive? Even as a password protected digital download for preorders, that would let new customers get a chance to get the tracks while the first people who ordered it got the official physical copy that would inevitably be more valuable and unique.

I guess it just depends how the tracks on the third disc would be distributed/handled when they start taking preorders on the re-release?

Posted by James on 05-31-2009 at16:55:

quote:

Originally posted by audiori
If it were to happen, it wouldn't be released exactly the same as what was sent to preorderers. What they received would stay unique and interesting.

That's good enough for me. Carry on (as long as you don't add things to the re-released third disc. I HATE that!).

Posted by audiori on 05-31-2009 at17:39:

Nah, we're trying to bring stuff back without forcing the original owners to buy it all again. The main exception is really the albums themselves.. we want those to be expanded and blow away previous versions. Then the goal is to try to keep those in print without having to redo them later.

Posted by James on 05-31-2009 at21:12:

Good man. You keep expanding them, I'll keep buying them. Cool

Posted by Audiori J on 05-31-2009 at22:37:

The way I figured the 77s Chrimbo disc, was basically that everyone in the fan club got to hear the material years before anyone else. Yeah as far as I know, Mike never intended for those tracks to stay in 'fan club limbo' as my brother said.

When it comes to something like the 3rd preorder gift disc, I doubt Terry ever really said.. its set in stone that these tracks will never be used ever again. But of course, if something is meant as a thank you gift for preordering.. we want to not tarnish that gift. But really, if we say offered some of that disc for sale now.. the preorderers still got it first and got it free.

Kind of like the Swirling Eddies 'Midget, Speck' preorders got to hear some tracks before its release.. to me thats still a cool gift, even if other people get to buy the album later.

Posted by Mountain Fan on 06-02-2009 at11:58:

quote:

Originally posted by audiori
It was a gift.. the main part of that gift was 1) it didn't cost extra, 2) preorderers got to hear it first. (Whats it been now? 2 years? 3 I guess. ). If it were to happen, it wouldn't be released exactly the same as what was sent to preorderers. What they received would stay unique and interesting.

Part of it though, is a little like the 77s Happy Chrimbo being sent to 77s Club members years ago. The 77s had no intention of all of that music staying in fan club limbo. Its a shame not to let the guys make something off of some of that music.

There are no immediate plans to do anything with it. Its just part of a larger goal to bring everything back in one way or another and remove the possibility for bootleggers to make money off of stuff like this.

Nothing is set in stone however. If preorderers are very opposed to the idea of any of that coming out again, send us a PM and let us know.. we'll share your thoughts with everyone. I don't think we could guarantee that none of it would ever come out again, but it still might influence everyones decisions.

i can't remember the exact spin when the DA 30th was reissued, but from what i recollect the 3rd disc was available only to pre-orderers and it was seen as an exclusive item to entice pre-order sales. i don't remember any fine print saying they may be released again or in other formats. of course i didn't enter into a formal contract either that said the tracks would never be reissued, but i believe that was the impression given at the time.

i think it's silly to have stuff that exclusive, especially since some fans sees it as immoral to sell rare items at high prices and the a-bros seem to have an aversion to rare high prices as well. it shouldn't matter whether someone later resells an item for $5, $50, or $500 in terms of the original "gift" and pre-order exclusivity statement. you and terry decide what to do before something is planned or released ... the moral and Christian thing to do is stick to it once you decide. in this case it seems "input" or "approval" is somehow being sought on the mb to justify making the tracks available again and perhaps weakening the original exclusivity statement?

perhaps a better thing to do would have been to say something like "there are no plans to release the 3rd bonus disc in any format in the next year" or something like that. it doesn't seem hard or difficult to foresee what happens to rare items - after all, terry had been in the music business over 30 years at that point, right?

as far as the third disc not costing anything, it did have some minimal cost to print it and package it in the thin sleeve with the label. i think what was meant is there was no additional processing costs related to tape restoration and audio manipulation because it was all done in order to select what actually made it on disc 2. however, it seems silly to say it cost nothing extra when (for example) the all day sing disc stayed out of print for awhile and it was not a fancy release either, although it did have an actual printed paperboard sleeve.

to be honest it sounds a lot like double-speak and situational ethics to me. this type of thing is a portion of what created the "bd and his buddies" situation. Roll Eyes

i hope "exclusive" things like this are avoided in the future or at least the statement about them considered a little more carefully. it's between you and terry and God and your consciences whatever you decide. like i said, there was no actual exclusive contract and terry owns the music so ultimately you/he can do whatever you want with it. it shouldn't matter much what any preorderers think!

i think a lot of fans would like to hear the tunes in spite of the rough audio quality.

Posted by audiori on 06-02-2009 at12:04:

Hard at work looking for more conspiracies?

You're incorrect with your recollection of how the bonus disc came to be offered... The third disc was added *after* people had already preordered. It was not used to entice people to preorder. No one knew ahead of time that it was coming and it wasn't announced until the regular CD was at the manufacturer. Preorderers also received all three discs for $5 less than non-preorder customers received the regular two. Thats what I meant when I said it didn't cost extra... it actually cost the customer less than if they hadn't preordered.

You're right about one thing.. this is exactly the kind of thing that caused some to be upset in the past. Misunderstanding. Mis-reading. Mis-remembering. Unfair assumptions. Assuming the worst. Looking for the scam where it doesn't exist. Reading more into an announcement than what is there. You just gave us a perfect example.

Some seem to have forgotten that we're all on the same side...

Here is the entire text from the original announcement regarding the third disc...

quote:

Most of you that preordered will also receive an extra gift as a token of our appreciation for your support of this project.

Thats it. No "Exclusive." Sometimes things don't always work out as planned, but these announcements are generally pretty straight forward.

Posted by Mountain Fan on 06-02-2009 at14:19:

i will be the first to admit my memory is not perfect, however i believe some preorders were still taken after the 3rd disc was announced.

edit:
if that's all there was to it, then why even ask people that preordered something a few years ago what they think? it is irrelevant if it was only pitched as a "special gift" after the fact and not "exclusive" before the fact.

Posted by audiori on 06-02-2009 at15:25:

To be nice. Because we actually like to get input from other fans and give them what they want as often as possible.

Posted by Audiori J on 06-02-2009 at15:46:

Which is usually followed by a bunch of misguided complaining.

Posted by DrDanAmos on 06-02-2009 at18:09:

Wow. And all this because I asked a yes or no question. (Which I think turned into a maybe, but in a different form/not the same track/track order.)

Mountain Fan, if you want to sell your CD, sell it. You're the only one bringing up any moral questions on asking a high price. I felt that a lot of sellers on amazon.com charge extremely high prices. But you have to do what you feel is right.

And if you do end up putting up for auction or whatever, then that will let the buyers decide what the final price is what they pay.

Posted by Audiori J on 06-03-2009 at10:30:

Yeah its pretty typical.

We never said people shouldn't sell something for whatever price they want to, we just hate to see people pay a high price for something that we may be working on reprinting anyway. And in fact, usually if we see people paying a high price for something, that may be the release we will try to get back in print. Darn Floor used to go for $120 or so at times, and look.. now you can get it with extra material.. for a reasonable price. Cool

Posted by Mountain Fan on 06-03-2009 at12:05:

maybe when the next title is announced you should consider some kind of special sales deal and capture some of the $ associated with the rarity of DA recordings. for example, you could say up front that the price will increase for the last 100, then 50, then 10 copies of a title you have left?! that might encourage people to order sooner instead of later.