Daniel Amos Message Board | Print: Daniel Amos - Darn Floor Big Bite 20th Anniversary

Posted by joey on 11-30-2008 at21:17:

Cool

quote:

Originally posted by larryl
audiori......

i have indeed handed my money on several occasions directly to mike at shows. in fact, i've been the merch guy at several shows, and had the distinct pleasure of handing him a lot of money...... or a little, depending on the show....

i know there's no difference... i just like it........

i end up buying more stuff then too! especially when they are ready to sign it..... Pleased

Posted by peawinkel on 11-30-2008 at22:35:

Anyone who hasn't ordered DFBB by now needs to get their priorities straight. I was in such a rush to get it, I made the mistake of pre-ordering it from CD Universe not thinking that I was putting less $ in DA's pockets by doing that. I will not make that same mistake in the future. DFBB is one of the greatest recordings of ALL-TIME, in my less-than-humble opinion.

Posted by servantsteve on 12-01-2008 at11:51:

I am kind of surprised people don't like ordering from this site. I look here first for many reasons. Buying DA used is way more expensive than buying reissues unless you just get really lucky.

It is very important to support the band- look at poor Chandler. Where else could he make money to support his windex habit? Who am I to be so cold as to deny him the simple pleasure he gets from a nice clean window?

Seriously, though, this place is great for getting the DA/LD/SE releases early and at a fair price that actually gets into the pockets of the artists themselves. If it weren't for this site, I wonder if Terry could continue to produce music.

Posted by audiori on 12-01-2008 at12:01:

It would certainly be fewer and farther between. Short of some wealthy investor coming along and putting up the money, its unlikely that Buechners wouldn have happened. Or Midget. Or Little Big. Or quite af ew Dogs albums. Or the Alarma Bookset or WEWH. Or Imaginarium. Or DA30th. Or the DVDs. Probably nearly 100% of the minor releases over the last 10 years wouldn't have happened.

Its actually quite an impressive list of releases from the last ten years... especially compared to the number of releases from the previous ten. The vast majority of which were released on time and without the need of a preorder.

To be clear, its only a couple of people that refuse to buy directly from the band's websites. Its not significant, its just... odd.. for self proclaimed "fans." And I'm not sure what they think they're accomplishing.

Posted by Audiori J on 12-01-2008 at12:20:

quote:

Originally posted by DwDunphy
Audioris, you have grown frustrated by what you feel is someone waging a form of character assassination. You have defended yourselves to the best of your ability, but you won't be able to change someone's mind who is determined. Again, the fight's not yours to wage anymore either.

Dead ends. I hope everyone will decide to call cease fire, if not a truce, stand on their actions and let the chips fall where they may. Otherwise, this same plotline will continue on and on with no resolution.

That depends on where 'the fight' is waged. If the comments are made on a website where we promote the releases and are the moderators we either have to respond or remove the negative comments. Either way, people will get offended. So we are dambed if we do dambed if we don't. But we still have to deal with it no matter what, because that is our job here. Usually we try and respond, if it gets heated then we have to resort to removing it. But we'd rather try to communicate first, than to just remove everything.

But again, as my brother said, I am more curious than anything why someone would feel the need to make such comments when it hurts no one but Terry who we are trying to help with our volunteer work. And now I am curious as to how MF has been 'wronged' in any way whatsoever.

Buying from here is exactly the same as buying from the guys at the shows, the money ends up in the same place. The only difference is we stuff the envelopes and ship the stuff out so Terry and Mike don't have to.

Posted by servantsteve on 12-01-2008 at12:25:

God bless you guys for all you do.

Posted by colorblind on 12-01-2008 at14:00:

I'm saddened by the snide remarks and bitterness that I've seen here.
I'm grateful for the work that Jason & Eric are doing...and it's obvious that if it weren't for the DA store that Terry wouldn't be able to put out near as much music as he has been.

I would think that the one unifying factor here would be Terry Scott Taylor.
If he has personally rubbed anyone the wrong way (and he wouldn't be the first...or the last!), then the great thing about it is that you can move on and just stop posting on his messageboard.
Or, if you're put out about something specific, then have a little class and handle it privately (pm, e-mail, etc). This just seems obvious to me.

I know that I would be considered a new(er) guy to the boards, but I'm here simply because I'm a fan of Terry's work...all of it... And when I read a thread about the brand new DFBB reissue, I would expect to read FAN comments surrounding that work...

I know that there's some histroy here and some folks got soured, but that's a choice. My first order from the DA store took a bit longer to arrive than most...so I e-mailed them...and end the end, it all would have worked out anyways...and the bros A got back to me asap and let me know what was going on...it was an international order.

I feel sorry for the fans who feel the need to spread sour grapes.

BUY from the band (through the site)...Help Terry buy his wife a new dress.

As far as the DFBB reissue goes...I have to say that it's stunning. It is deluxe in every way. The Terry interview is also well done. Thanks to all the folks that made this happen!!!

Posted by DwDunphy on 12-01-2008 at14:15:

Well, I understand that both parties are at the point where it is just butting heads - I don't see any opportunity for change there. I am grateful for the work you guys do, and I'm still shopping the DA Store (then again, I do a lot of internet music shopping)... I just wish there would be some amicable solution down the line. I just don't see where that happens during this particular juncture.

Posted by audiori on 12-01-2008 at14:24:

We appreciate the kind words folks -we really do. It really is an example of the attitude and spirit behind the majority of DA's fans. Very supportive. Very forigiving. Very patient. Not that there aren't bumps in the road, a lost shipment, a mistake or the occasional grumpy day.. but they understand what its all about and that those little frustrations here and there are nothing more than little frustrations. We are of course fans too and have all of the same issues, even if its from a different side of things. Every late package or release is a major frustration on our side too.. believe me.

As far as "both sides butting heads" goes... This thread should be a good example that its one side butting its head against the other and the other just wondering what the heck is going on. According to you, he feels wronged. Well, that puts it in his hands alone. We're not going to his message board and posting with a weird attitude... we don't feel wronged by him and we can't make him feel differently than he does. All we can do is ask that he either come to us about it, or stop and let it go. If he chooses to do neither, we would be forced to make it stop on this board which wouldn't make him any happier. I mean, I'm still waiting to hear how hw was "wronged" in the first place...

I would restate what I said earlier, it either needs to be dealt with (which requires the other person to let us know what the problem is), or it just needs to stop. As far as the DAmb is concerned, it will end one way or another.

(I'll eventually split all of this out of the Darn Floor thread.)

Posted by James on 12-01-2008 at16:50:

When I hear these stories about people getting rid of Terry's music (NOT you, Joel. That's different) and refusing to buy anything else from him, I'm absolutely baffled. Unless there's more to the story that I'm unaware of, this is all because some of Terry's albums were released later than expected! Is that really what's going on here?! Is it really that big of a deal, that you'd sell any Terry albums you have and refuse to buy anything else? Grow up, people! You're really being crybabies about this whole thing.

Posted by oomarty7 on 12-01-2008 at17:22:

The way I see it, Christian bands like DA are performing a kind of labor of love. If anyone is under the illusion that cd sales are making them rich then they are very mistaken. I would guess that Terry and the guys could in no way even make a living from just cd sales. In fact from a business perspective making cds is probably not only marginally profitable, but may indeed be unprofitable. I wouldn't be surprised if the guys barely broke even. Many bands MUST tour in order to make money. DA for the most part does not tour. And even if they did outlets would be small. So that goes to my original point: for Terry, DA and other Christian artists, making music is a labor of love. As for me, I am tremendously thankful that Terry marches on! I hope any blessing (financial or otherwise) he and the band realizes far outshines pettiness on the part of "fans." Because I believe Terry and DA do what they do out of a love for their craft, a loyalty to us fans, a love for our Savior and out of a heart of servant hood, I will support them in any way I can. That means I will try to maximize their ability to make money by buying from this website and by pre ordering when applicable. Sure, I could have purchased from Arena and saved some cash but it was more important to me to make sure Terry made more of what he deserves. And sure I got just as antsy as the rest waiting for the SE cd but again I knew Terry and Co. do what they do not to make a fortune but to provide a product that a small group of people love. And I was willing to cut them some slack because if they were like most Christian bands they would have stopped making music a long long time ago because it's not a very practical way to make money. So I say thank you thank you Terry and gang! You and your music are a treasure and we are blessed for you and your efforts! Thank you also, Audioris, for the time you put into making sure we are informed, for promoting the band, and for putting up with a whole lot of nonsense!

Posted by George on 12-01-2008 at18:21:

quote:

Originally posted by oomarty7
bands like DA are performing a kind of labor of love.

Clearly. Terry and the guys have given me far, FAR more than I have ever given them.

(and they've gotten a LOT o' my cash over the years Big Grin

)

Posted by wayneb on 12-01-2008 at23:32:

Well, I waited a year for the "Midget" cd! (From first order until a copy reached me here in New Zealand, finally). The other two Cd's that I ordered at around the same time ("Hats" and "Prickly heat") have never arrived.
I've had no replies to my emails or PM's about it, except one PM fairly early on. I had to post on this board to get some information.

So, the system is not perfect!

But, George, I am with you! I have been given far more from TST and the boys than I have ever given to them in the way of money.

Shortly I will order the new "Darn Floor" and hopefully get my other 2 cd's in the same package. Especially now that international shipping seems to be more reliable.

I have more to potentially complain about than many...although I didn't get my name in a song (drat). I'm not complaining though - I am happy to be supporting these guys and appreciate all that the DA store guys do...and I don't think they are getting rich on the proceeds of the sales....

I have read most of the threads about all this over the years, and checked out places like the Negative Fruit Plantation. I can see that from their own point of view, people have had some genuine concerns about how some things were handled. The way they have responded, however, just blows everything up out of all proportion compared to the actual issues.

What's the point? Get over it. Walk down a village street in Asia and see a man with both legs amputated below the knee "walking" around with rags tied around his stumps to "protect" them....maybe his CD is late as well, and he is going down to the Post Office to see if has arrived.......

I value the freedom of expression that has been shown on this board over the years since I first started visiting. With that freedom goes some responsibility, however. 1 Cor 10: 21 - 23. Read it, and agree or disagree as you see fit.
Thanks for hearing me out.

Posted by audiori on 12-02-2008 at01:07:

I don't want this to get sidetracked into talking about orders, but.. I'm curious - did you PM us with a different user name by any chance? I'm looking down my inbox and the last PM I see from you was quite a while ago and it was replied to. If you want to send another PM about this, I'd like to see what happens.. I hadn't noticed PMs being unreliable before, but now I'm curious.

Wayne is definitely in that small group of well battered veterans.. plus, he's in New Zealand. For some reason, New Zealand had a rough year for shipments. Since things smoothed out for all International stuff a while back I haven't seen a problem, but earlier on in the year there was no shortage of them.

We almost need a special item to send to folks who go through some Horrendous order issue. I actually really like that idea.... hmm... although I guess we'd have people faking order problems to get it. Maybe its not a good idea.

Posted by wayneb on 12-02-2008 at03:54:

A gnome would be good....

It might have been more of an email issue, rather than a PM problem as well, although I know that I did send a few PM's through too. No worries.

You had plenty of email problems over the last year or so - it's good that they seem to be sorted out now. Look out for my upcoming order!

Posted by servantsteve on 12-02-2008 at08:31:

I stopped selling stuff from my music store overseas because if the foreign post office didn't deliver it fast enough and the customer lodges a complaint, paypal will reverse the payment. My profit margin was too small to ship overseas with that kind of overhead. I have never been reimbursed by a customer afterwards when their package finally does arrive. I don't know if the webstore has the same kind of issues. Ireland was the worst for me, but Italy was a close second.

Posted by jiminy on 12-02-2008 at08:36:

as I said - I constantly and forever am waiting a l...l....l...o....o...n...n.....g...g time for those things I havent ordered!

can I get something free now???.
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please? Cool

Posted by audiori on 12-02-2008 at08:47:

PayPal can be very annoying. One of the most ridiculous things we've ever had them do was to reverse a charge just because a customer asked a question through their form. It wasn't a dispute or anything like that... just a question about one of the titles in the store. We had no choice but to cancel the brand new order and then ask the customer to try again. I also do not like the fact that if there is an order issue and its approached through PayPal, they only really give you one option - to cancel and issue a refund. Most of the time, the customer still wants the order.. but, PayPal forces us to cancel it on them.

We too lose money occasionally from International shipments. Overall, I'm sure the stores still make more from International sales than they lose, but its definitely made us re-evaluate shipping overseas on many occasions. In the end, we can't leave out the fella's International fans. Its probably about a tenth of our total sales, so theres still a lot of fans overseas even though the guys haven't toured outside of the US in ages. I'm amazed that we get orders from 40 countries... its weird that their music has reached that far around the world.

Posted by MarkyMark77 on 12-02-2008 at08:58:

I guess vinyl is such a pain to ship internationally that Lo-Fidelity doesn't do it at all.

I can't imagine how long it takes for you guys to get the orders filled. As I was reading this thread, I was thinking about how long it takes me to send out the few trades that I mail. And that's just a handful every once in a while (I have four sitting, and they have been sitting for days, on my bookshelf at home, waiting to be mailed). As I was thinking about that, it gave me a new appreciation for your work.

It is a shame that there can't be more people in the fan base doing this work, but I can see some major problems with that. You have to trust people with money, customer info, etc., But I wonder if, at least on the mail end, you could have some people do the mailing of things. They'd have to have product at their house, be trustworthy, etc., but I wonder if that's possible.

Posted by audiori on 12-02-2008 at09:08:

Its been thought about for a long time. Theres just no clear idea of how to do it.

At one point, we had planned to split the fan clubs out into a separate "business." It would have its own account and its own stock of the fan club CDs. That would have worked OK I think since it could have been largely independent.

We've also thought about setting up a separate international store. So that a different group of folks could focus on that and deal with all of those issues. The main problem is always that we'd have to split the inventory in some way... ship to multiple locations when new things are printed.. then we'd have the problem of when we started running out of certain titles, how we would know how many to send to each store. If it was set up as an entirely separate business, that would avoid a lot of complicated issues - but it would also mean there would be more "cost" overall for the stores. It would also mean that our budget for helping with new albums would be smaller - since it would be split between two different stores trying to stay afloat. I don't know... I still like the idea on paper, but there are a lot of questions to answer and details to work out. I don't know if it would end up being more trouble than it was worth.

Theres also the complication of the "loss" mentioned earlier.. as it is now, the regular stores can absorb that loss without it being a problem. If it was a separate store, it would have to deal with its own loss. Or, everything (like shipping fees) would have to be adjusted to deal with it which would end up costing International customers extra when ordering.