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--- Randy Stonehill -Between the Glory & The Flame (http://www.danielamos.com/wbb2/thread.php?threadid=12386)
Posted by Jerry Davison on 04-04-2008 at17:39:
Speaking as someone who would have something to lose if someone passed around my music for free -- if it's out of print and you have paid for a copy at anytime in the past, the artist has already made his money off that sale. Copyright law allows for you to make a copy for yourself if you have purchased it legally. Personally, at this point, if anybody gave a rat's patoot enough to want my music for their personal enjoyment, I would give it to them. But that's me.
I think it's obvious that we would all buy it if it were in print. Having said that, if anyone wants a copy PM me.
Posted by DwDunphy on 04-04-2008 at18:43:
I wonder what Randy's personal take on these albums is today and how he feels about their OOP status.
Posted by Eis on 04-05-2008 at15:50:
| quote: |
Originally posted by DwDunphy
I wonder what Randy's personal take on these albums is today and how he feels about their OOP status. |
I'll try to ask him when I see him in concert this Thursday and Saturday.
Posted by jyroflux on 04-05-2008 at17:55:
| quote: |
Originally posted by Jerry Davison
Speaking as someone who would have something to lose if someone passed around my music for free -- if it's out of print and you have paid for a copy at anytime in the past, the artist has already made his money off that sale. Copyright law allows for you to make a copy for yourself if you have purchased it legally. Personally, at this point, if anybody gave a rat's patoot enough to want my music for their personal enjoyment, I would give it to them. But that's me.
I think it's obvious that we would all buy it if it were in print. Having said that, if anyone wants a copy PM me. |
Well, I'm not getting any younger. I would like to be able to hear BTGATF and other out of print music while I still have fairly good hearing. The Audiori's take good care of the DA catalog, I just wish they or someone like them could handle Stonehill's catalog.
Posted by jiminy on 04-06-2008 at10:42:
my stance is a lot like Jerrys. If you owned it at one time.and theres no way to get any copy..then retirving one from a freind is a sort of "replacement" thing.
If you share it with 5 freinds..well-you'll feel 5 times the tinge of guilt. (or should- depending on things.)
If you put it out there for anyone and everyone..it will sag sales for any reissue that may come out. (but probaly not to people like those on this board- who enjoy building thier "stock") and lets face it- you dont have to be a wizard to use Limewire or some of the other "ways" to get what you want.
If you make money while doing this- well- shame on you- you corporate pig (much like the ones who hold these catalogues ransom)
Posted by jiminy on 04-06-2008 at14:48:
face?
Posted by DwDunphy on 04-08-2008 at18:56:
And if that doesn't work, I'll ask Joe Jackson tomorrow night. I'm sure he won't know what the heck I'm talking about, but I need INCLUSION!!
Posted by Audiori J on 04-09-2008 at00:18:
| quote: |
Originally posted by MarkyMark77
| quote: |
| Thats why the reissues are important to get behind . |
I certainly agree with that! I'm really looking forward to the "Darn Floor, Big Bite" and "HD" releases! It pains me to think that Terry would not receive compensation for his brilliant work; at the same time, I understand fans wanting to hear OOP stuff.
Is there a difference for some between sharing it amongst a small community (i.e., on this board) and just opening a download up for any and everyone? I'm curious to know what everyone thinks. The difference to me seems to be that, on this board, people would buy a reissue anyway, even if they could download it. But, that doesn't make it legal.
| quote: |
| to me its a matter of conscience.. |
So, Jiminy, what exactly is your stance on this most important of issues? 
|
From a legal position, the Copyright Laws basically forbid the copying of copyrighted material without permission or licensing from the copyright owner. The Fair Use and Standards Act updated this to say that if you bought a copy of an album you can make a backup for yourself. (All other reproductions would fall under the original copyright law and the newer Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998, and still be forbidden.) This is why the RIAA goes after "illegal downloads", and why sites like Napster have such problems.
We all know that this has never actually been followed by anyone, everyone makes tapes, MP3s, CDRs etc of all kinds of stuff for themselves, for friends and in todays culture to upload and distribute.
For some artists, this is not a huge problem if they still have plenty of income, or other jobs. For those whos living is generated solely from their music and to a relatively small fanbase the damage can be greater.
My personal opinion is that the reason the Christian market is pretty much drying up has a lot to do with it no longer being financially viable due to these factors. The small labels, and small artists can barely make it anymore and some just retire. (Of course the music that is less creative and popular escapes this by being radio freindly and therefore financially viable to larger labels. So the artists we love are either forced into retirement or they "sell out" and make Christian fluff.)
My Brother and I don't work for Randy anymore, but we do still work for Terry/DA, and I think DA and their fanbase have a unique symbiotic relationship. We need them and they need us. If Terry is going to continue making music, he needs a loyal following. Weird Al's fans have an agreement amongst themselves to not share MP3s on their fan websites because they intend to be supportive of Al.. not that he needs it as much, but I think its a nice jesture.
When it comes to DA music, the management has requested the removal of copyright infringing distribution both in the form of downloadable whole albums and people
selling CDRs of Terry's music. The market is not huge, and this type of thing does have a dramatic effect. Not to mention why should some guy get money for Terry's music instead of Terry?
Posted by Dr Rich on 04-09-2008 at06:32:
| quote: |
Originally posted by Audiori J
Not to mention why should some guy get money for Terry's music instead of Terry? |
Why indeed?
Posted by DwDunphy on 04-09-2008 at14:48:
The sort of hinge-point of the argument is this: Terry, the Townsends and this site have it perfectly clear that they want to reissue the material - it has not been relegated to the Island Of Misfit Tunes. With that in mind, a hands-off stance is not only sensible but welcomed. Anyone who would go for a digital LP rip over official product is secretly being spiteful.
Then there are these other releases that have very much been resigned to the dustbin of history, including "Between The Glory And The Flame" (see what I did there?) that not only don't appear to have reissues coming anytime soon, most don't even have a clue to its existence at all. While it is really not morally a good thing, if someone wants to hear these tunes, LP rips are the only way.
NOW, with that, it should be readily apparent to someone of means out there that a market exists. There are much worse things an enterprising type could invest in.
One question though: Eric and Jason, why did your working relationship with Randy fall through (if you don't mind me asking)...
Posted by audiori on 04-09-2008 at18:25:
Nothing weird.. the whole Uncle Stonehill thing just kind of fizzled.
When we were brought on board, it was planned to be a huge deal with a cartoon and all kinds of stuff. There was talk about hooking up with Squint at one point I think.. then, it was the BigIdea people. The website was about half-completed and then all of the air was let out of the balloon. It just didn't go anywhere. The fans that hear it, love it.. but.. it just hasn't ever broken out of that small group.
Posted by RoxxRegime on 04-09-2008 at18:41:
| quote: |
From a legal position, the Copyright Laws basically forbid the copying of copyrighted material without permission or licensing from the copyright owner. The Fair Use and Standards Act updated this to say that if you bought a copy of an album you can make a backup for yourself. (All other reproductions would fall under the original copyright law and the newer Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998, and still be forbidden.) This is why the RIAA goes after "illegal downloads", and why sites like Napster have such problems.
We all know that this has never actually been followed by anyone, everyone makes tapes, MP3s, CDRs etc of all kinds of stuff for themselves, for friends and in todays culture to upload and distribute.
For some artists, this is not a huge problem if they still have plenty of income, or other jobs. For those whos living is generated solely from their music and to a relatively small fanbase the damage can be greater.
My personal opinion is that the reason the Christian market is pretty much drying up has a lot to do with it no longer being financially viable due to these factors. The small labels, and small artists can barely make it anymore and some just retire. (Of course the music that is less creative and popular escapes this by being radio freindly and therefore financially viable to larger labels. So the artists we love are either forced into retirement or they "sell out" and make Christian fluff.)
My Brother and I don't work for Randy anymore, but we do still work for Terry/DA, and I think DA and their fanbase have a unique symbiotic relationship. We need them and they need us. If Terry is going to continue making music, he needs a loyal following. Weird Al's fans have an agreement amongst themselves to not share MP3s on their fan websites because they intend to be supportive of Al.. not that he needs it as much, but I think its a nice jesture.
When it comes to DA music, the management has requested the removal of copyright infringing distribution both in the form of downloadable whole albums and people selling CDRs of Terry's music. The market is not huge, and this type of thing does have a dramatic effect. Not to mention why should some guy get money for Terry's music instead of Terry? |
Agreed on all points -- well said!
I just can't understand how someone could like an artist, and then want to steal from them. I personally feel like the music I get from Terry, Randy, and everyone else that I love, is an amazing gift -- worth far more than the few dollars we pay for the music. Why steal it, and by doing so, kill it?
Posted by audiori on 04-09-2008 at18:53:
I've had conversations with several music pirates.. their view is really weird. It's almost like they think they're "helping" - even if they know the artist doesn't want them to do it. Generally, if a fan wants to turn someone on to the band.. the best thing to do is make them a mix disc.. or just a couple of songs.. or let them borrow a regular CD... or, even better, buy them one. If they like it, they'll buy more. Just giving them everything right up front relieves them of the opportunity to buy.
A lot of times, they also have the idea that artists that are Christians shouldn't need to make money off of their music. Or... they see music as being "in the air" and not owned by anyone so.. as if once its released, it becomes public domain in their minds. I remember one fella saying it was like the scent coming from a bakery. The problem with that analogy is that your hunger isn't being "fed" by the scent. If anything, you'll get hungrier.
Its a very strange view.. the logic is hard to follow.
Of course, a lot of times they just make excuses. If one doesn't work, they move on to another one. In those cases, I suspect its purely selfish reasons for wanting to pirate music.
Posted by RoxxRegime on 04-09-2008 at19:06:
I remember talking to a friend of mine who's younger than me (I think he was about 19 at the time), and it all came down to him saying, "but I can't afford to BUY it!"
He kept saying downloading was ok. I finally said to him, "Ok, so if I want a corvette, should I get to have one without paying for it?"
I think the bottom line is that they feel a sense of entitlement. It's such a weird thing. If there was indeed a way to acquire someone else corvette without paying for it, would that make it right just because you can? I think we all agree it's wrong -- but somehow people don't get it when it comes to intellectual property.
I work for a publishing comany by day, and I'm a musician on the side, so I get accused of being over-sensitive about this -- but I think it's pretty black and white. And when you add to it that the vast majority of stuff that's illegally downloaded is stuff that's readily available for purchase, it's a wonder that people can convince themselves it's ok.
If someone is to say, "Well, they're a Christian, they shouldn't make money off music," I'd want to say to them, "Well, you're a Christian, you shouldn't be stealing."
Posted by jyroflux on 04-09-2008 at19:09:
| quote: |
Originally posted by RoxxRegime
If someone is to say, "Well, they're a Christian, they shouldn't make money off music," I'd want to say to them, "Well, you're a Christian, you shouldn't be stealing."
|
I've never understood that logic. What is so different about music? Because I'm a Christian and I write books, I shouldn't expect to get paid? Because I'm a Christian and I build houses, I shouldn't expect to get paid? It just baffles me.
Posted by Dr Rich on 04-09-2008 at19:35:
| quote: |
Originally posted by audiori
Generally, if a fan wants to turn someone on to the band.. the best thing to do is make them a mix disc. |
I am a huge fan of the mix tape... uh disc. Yeah... CD.
That's what I meant to say!
Posted by Dr Rich on 04-09-2008 at19:36:
| quote: |
Originally posted by audiori
...or, even better, buy them one. |
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