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Posted by audiori on 11-08-2008 at13:09:
I guess on the surface, my problem with that idea is that it sounds (financially speaking) an awful lot like Warm&FIlled's DA/77s fan club situation years ago. Putting aside for a moment all of the flaws in the design of those clubs, financially it was only really a boost once a year... and certainly no more than it would have been to just release a CD. It may be ok as an "extra" though, but I can't imagine giving away everything that way. The fellas have too many bills spread out throughout the year.
Posted by DwDunphy on 11-08-2008 at18:52:
Yeah, Warm & Filled attempted to do that with the clubs but I was never in the financial position to jump in, so I certainly wouldn't be amenable to some subscription Ponzi nonsense. It's a different thing though for those advocating it. They believe now that the album is a calling card, if anything, and the profit is solely from live performance.
Not good news for those that still love albums.
Worse news for amateurs who can't play out live.
Posted by audiori on 11-08-2008 at22:56:
... or for bands that don't tour much anymore.
Another problem with that for bands like the Dogs is that a lot of the extra cash they bring in on tour is from CD sales. So you remove that, and they'd have to raise their booking fees. That probably would do very little other than cut down the size of their tours.
Unfortunately, theres no one-size-fits-all solution to any of it. What works for some bands, doesn't work for others.
Posted by Mountain Fan on 11-10-2008 at11:15:
well, I am sick of hearing the SOS no matter how true it may or may not be ...
... almost to the point of not buying a CD in protest.
i got a bunch of Led Zep and Stevie Ray Vaughn CDs really cheap lately and it got me thinking what I would really want is a way to own songs and artwork inc liner notes without having to actually own any CDs and paper. i.e. a way that I could still sell and transfer rights to, like a physical CD but it wouldn't take up any space. I could download the tunes and artwork in my choice of format. but if i got tired of it and wanted to sell it, i could do so. don't think that's quite out there yet and probably won't be?! i haven't read any itunes etc fineprint, but i'm pretty sure they're geared towards selling as many downloads as possible and them being non-transferable. don't have a clue what they do about artwork and liner notes.
i believe it was a Prince interview i read not too long ago where even he said there's just not money to be made in the music business anymore ... but then he's a jehovah's witness now so maybe his thinking is clouded?
http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/books/10/28/prince.21.nights.ap/index.html?iref=newssearch
| quote: |
...
Of course, Prince is used to proving skeptics wrong. These days, he's regarded as a pioneer for artists' rights and known for releasing music over the Internet. But when he left his longtime label Warner Bros. nearly two decades ago after a protracted battle over his creative path, and abandoned major record labels to release music on his own, he left everyone -- from fans to musician insiders -- wondering if he had lost his mind.
In recent years, he has re-linked with major record labels like Sony and Universal Music Group to release his albums, but isn't sure any record is worth putting out in this era of piracy and illegal downloads. Though the book includes a CD, it contains no new songs, just classic hits and other songs from one of his signature jam sessions.
"Today, it's not realistic to expect to put out new music and profit from it. There's no point in trying to put new music out there and keep it from being (exploited)," he says.
And he now has disdain for the way the Internet has, in his view, subverted artists' rights.
"The powers that be are abusing the copyright infringement," he says. "You can't sample Steven Spielberg; you don't see his stuff up there, just old tapes of the Ohio Players, who can't afford to defend themselves."
But while Prince exudes hints of frustration, he's hardly bitter: These days, serenity and good-natured fun seem to be his mantra.
...
|
Posted by audiori on 11-10-2008 at11:25:
He's also rich.
Posted by voxrob on 11-10-2008 at18:25:
Music delivery
I'm probably showing a certain amount of fogeyism, but having the rights and the music and the art but no physical thing loses something.
I used to go to record stores and buy LPs. I'd buy one or two -- or if I was really splurging, 3 or 4 -- and I would come home, play the first one, look at the album art which had a canvas that could be expressive, look at the lyrics and/or liner notes. Sometimes I was struck by who was playing on the album -- "wow a couple of the Grateful Dead were on some early Jefferson Starship", etc.. The record-buying experience was a big deal. It was special. Even the process of skipping or repeating a track by going to the turntable, lifting the arm and moving it had something to it.
CDs came along. They were more expensive so I was not able to experiment as much on something that look potentially interesting. Good sound quality. The liner notes were smaller -- and nowadays it's getting harder to read so I need to be more motivated. For the most part, forget about reading the lyrics. But there were still some memorable incidents -- going to get the Beatles CDs the first day they came out (3 and 4 at a pop), going at midnight to get the first Beatles Anthology (also picked up Springsteen). Going to Kaneohe to get the first DA CD -- about 2 weeks after the LP came out. The Springsteen Live box was special -- then again, that came in a package that looked like an LP.
Digital stuff. It's easier to get the old singles without buying 12-20 tracks I don't want. It's certainly fast and convenient. But it's not nearly as much of a big deal anymore. It's just another file on a hard drive and I got more than plenty of those. Is it a treat to buy something online? Well, it's nice to be able to try before you buy and, consequently, get only one or two cuts rather than the whole thing. But, at it's best, the thrill of iTunes shopping isn't even close to buying the actual physical thing. It's just like downloading everything else on the net.
Part of it is the experience of having something physical and tangible to look at when the music is playing. I'll bet session musicians really hate this -- they were close to being ignored before, now they are completely and totally unknown. Yeah, on "Blows Against the Empire", it says that one of the cuts is by Garcia, Hart, et al., but it's not the same thing -- and even though iTunes says that members of CS&N were involved, who knows where. And the groovy, early 70s art isn't there to put the album into a cultural context.
This is why I still buy the physical items. Especially when I really care about the sound quality.
Finally, it _is_ a headache having the stuff -- my house is full too. But having the faceless art on a hard drive seems like a poor substitute. So I keep winnowing through my CDs -- after all, I'm not going to be listening to some of these more than a couple more times... Maybe someone else would like them.
Posted by larryl on 11-10-2008 at18:54:
some stuff on itunes has included a PDF of the album art... with full lyrics and liner notes.... i have found that to be very cool......
maybe it's because i am too young (34) to have ever bought a lot of vinyl.... but the art isn't that big a deal to me..... heck.. .i was just glad that CDs had bigger print than cassettes..... and you didn't have to fold the cover 400 times to get it in the case....
i was a liner note junky... but i just want the info... post it on the website somewhere, and i'm happy...
Posted by joey on 11-10-2008 at19:19:
other than my own house i mostly only play music on my ipod....
the only physical cd i have bought in the last year is hgb....
and that was played once on my computer to make mp3s and then put away for safekeeping...
Posted by jiminy on 11-10-2008 at22:25:
agree- I am shifting to everything digital.
vrob-
I do see yer point (being of the fogey persuasion meself.)
But LPS sure are cumbersome. Its like a lot of experiences that change with time. THe whole music industry was just peddling things diferent.
ONe great advantage now for audiophiles like me is we can hear SO much more now, the way music is accessible.
Posted by audiori on 11-11-2008 at00:04:
I buy everything on CD, then make an mp3 backup for playing in the car. I don't care so much about the format I'm using to play the music (although if its a lower quality mp3 I can certainly hear it), but I still want to own the album with artwork and packaging.
Artwork and music go hand in hand to me.. at least with the artists that care to try to do something interesting with the packaging (U2, Beatles, DA, etc. ) Its not that I couldn't still enjoy the music without the packaging.. but it wouldn't be the same. Not to mention the joy I've always gotten since I was a little kid in buying that new album, cracking open the plastic and studying every photo and liner note. Its a huge part of (at least) that first listen to me. When I think of albums like DOppelganger, Abbey Road or Joshua Tree.. I think of the artwork as much as the music.
Posted by PuP on 11-11-2008 at07:44:
| quote: |
Originally posted by larryl
i was a liner note junky... but i just want the info... post it on the website somewhere, and i'm happy... |
This is how I feel about it, too.
Artwork is cool, but it is not the reason I buy music.
I would like to see all music on the Internet in some way that rewards the artist and the distributor and isn't in a format that can go obsolete (so I don't have to buy the album on cassette when the LP wears out then buy it on CD when the cassette wears out then buy it on iTunes when the CD gets scratched then buy it on ____.com when iTunes goes out of business then ...). It's not going to happen tomorrow, but I think it may happen sooner than we think.
Not to say someone couldn't release a collectible edition on vinyl with a booklet and gatefold artwork and a limited edition autographed poster and desktop wallpapers and a lapel pin or whatever. Nine Inch Nails did something like that with their Ghosts I-IV release. One price for mp3s only, other editions with physical media and collectible goodness at various prices.
Posted by Jimmy Brown on 11-11-2008 at08:34:
| quote: |
Originally posted by audiori
Artwork and music go hand in hand to me.. at least with the artists that care to try to do something interesting with the packaging (U2, Beatles, DA, etc. ) Its not that I couldn't still enjoy the music without the packaging.. but it wouldn't be the same. Not to mention the joy I've always gotten since I was a little kid in buying that new album, cracking open the plastic and studying every photo and liner note. Its a huge part of (at least) that first listen to me. When I think of albums like DOppelganger, Abbey Road or Joshua Tree.. I think of the artwork as much as the music. |
I agree. As much as I love the music itself, when the entire package works together, there is something magical about it.
Posted by audiori on 11-11-2008 at09:52:
| quote: |
Originally posted by larryl
maybe it's because i am too young (34) to have ever bought a lot of vinyl.... but the art isn't that big a deal to me..... heck.. |
Interestingly, we're the same age and yet I bought tons of vinyl as a child... and quite a few 8-tracks. Thankfully, everyone around me had large vinyl collections as well.. so I could always hear what they were listening to even if my limited childhood budget kept me from purchasing something.
I eventually did make the switch to cassettes, but hated how tiny they were. Not only was it impossible to read the text, but a lot of times they even cut the cover artwork in half or shrunk it down to fit half the size of the cassette cover. I was happy to see CDs come along because it allowed artists to go back to the vinyl-style artwork.
Posted by larryl on 11-11-2008 at10:02:
| quote: |
Originally posted by audiori
| quote: |
Originally posted by larryl
maybe it's because i am too young (34) to have ever bought a lot of vinyl.... but the art isn't that big a deal to me..... heck.. |
Interestingly, we're the same age and yet I bought tons of vinyl as a child... and quite a few 8-tracks. Thankfully, everyone around me had large vinyl collections as well.. so I could always hear what they were listening to even if my limited childhood budget kept me from purchasing something.
I eventually did make the switch to cassettes, but hated how tiny they were. Not only was it impossible to read the text, but a lot of times they even cut the cover artwork in half or shrunk it down to fit half the size of the cassette cover. I was happy to see CDs come along because it allowed artists to go back to the vinyl-style artwork. |
i was surrounded by my parent's vinyl collection.... that's how i learned about hendrix, elvis, steppenwolf, and a host of other cool music. i didn't really hear anyone else's music....
you bought 8 tracks? wow. i mean... we were like 5 when they went away!!
i had vinyl.... mickey mouse and the chipmonks mainly.... i did love those chipmonks!!
i remember buying a few records... some alabama, a kenny rogers record... and i did have some 45's...... but not a lot of them.....
cassettes were what i mostly bought, once i started having my own money.
Posted by audiori on 11-11-2008 at10:23:
I was absolutely obsessed with music since I was probably 3 years old. I had probably a half a dozen 8-tracks.. some of which were Christmas presents I think... KISS Alive II, Beatles at Shea Stadium.. a lot of weird stuff for a 3-year old. When I was in first grade, my teacher let the kids bring in records and the entire class would sit and listen to them. Most kids brought in childrends records.. I almost always brought in rock and roll records which the teacher didn't care for too much. She'd hear something she didn't like and intentionally skip the needle. Kind of ticked me off. I'm actually not sure if I ever bought an 8-track myself.. can't remember. Sometimes our parents would give us cash to buy a 45, record or 8track. A couple of local stores had 45's for something like 50 cents. I forget what LPs cost at the time.
Posted by Audiori J on 11-11-2008 at10:31:
Yeah I remember you getting Kiss Alive II for Christmas on 8 track. I absolutely loved looking at record album artwork while listening to an album. I remember looking at the Alarma! inside cover picture a lot. For me the visual element is just as important as the audible element.
Posted by larryl on 11-11-2008 at10:34:
i liked the back cover to 'urban chipmonk' a good bit, as i recall....
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