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Posted by jon eddies on 08-15-2008 at14:53:

  Dg

I think the big issue with that review is what's wrong with the whole world and the church in part as well. The average person wants the cookie cutter ideas, the basic overview, the movie version of life. More and more we are lacking in deep thinkers.
Thank God for DA and those of us who chose to be thinkers and seekers of deeper truth.
I personally think DG has Paul've "voice" all over it. One minute we are hopeless and the next redeemed and made new. Life is full of dopplegangers if we chose to see it for what i really is. I used to sometimes wish I could be one of those blissfully ignorant Christians who life was good and simple for. Now I praise God that he made me who I am. Anyway. I babble on for no one...

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Posted by Ritchie_az on 08-15-2008 at15:18:

 

"People seem to prefer to be mindlessly entertained than to be challenged." --Kerry Livgren

Richard Nakamoto thinks that "We exalt thee, oh God" will make one happier than "For me, therefore, everything has a double existence, both in time and when time shall be no more. Vanity, vanity, all is vanity, and darkness is on the face of the deep. Who has failed, mankind or the church?" Which, of course, is true--it will make one happier. But does being Christian mean never feeling pain or heartache? Does it mean we're filled with Joy 24/7/365? Does it mean that all the bad stuff in the world stopped? That there's no more sin? That there's no more vanity?

You hold an image, it provides a common thread
No sense of menace, no feeling of dread
You never worry your pretty little head and
Angels tuck you in tonight
Angels tuck you in tonight
Angels tuck you in and greet you in the morning light

This cartoon world you've created, it's like Disneyland
Get out you golden ticket
The one they give you when you're born again
A guardian personage is watching over you
Nothing uncomfortable can ever get through
There is no suffering for the chosen few...

That's Richard Nakamoto Christian worldview. Which is sad, because it's a cartoon--it's not reality--and, instead of being challenged by Doppelganger, he criticized it for not making him happy enough. It gave him a feeling of dread, and he began to worry his pretty little head, so he--hiding behind his trusty fountain pen--tried to rip it to pieces. I mean, it's fine for him to say that Phil Driscoll makes him happy. But to say that Doppelganger takes us on "a visit to the hell of the unsaved" just because it doesn't make him feel all warm and fuzzy like I Exalt Thee does--well-- it's just wrong--it's illogical. In fact, if Mr. Nakamoto had read the lyrics just a little closer, he would have found that Doppelganger takes us on a visit to the hell of the "saved!"

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Posted by Dr Rich on 08-15-2008 at15:45:

 

Doppelganger to me is all about idolatry.
Exchanging easy answers for the truth.
A fantasy girl for a real relationship.
Idealized life for the real thing.

Of course there is more to it than that, but it's a major theme.

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Posted by Ritchie_az on 08-15-2008 at16:02:

  The ¡Alarma! Chronicles, Volume II, Chapter 3, "The Double":

"When I awoke, I saw that the man was still with me, but this time I could only see his back. He stood and walked quickly toward a doorway that I had not previously seen. I called after him but he did not turn until he had opened the door and was ready to step to the outer world. What I saw paralyzed my senses. A scream from my heart froze in my throat. Instead of the ashed countenance of our first encounter, his face was hidden by a mask.
"It was the mask that chilled me - for it was me - or at least it was my face - or a perfect likeness of my face - a twin? How was I to know - all I knew was that I was looking at myself, seemingly at a mirror image of my soul, and I was filled with repugnance. Incredibly, laughter began to pour out of the smile, louder and louder as the stranger - the twin - the double, passed over the threshold and out the door. 'Stop.' The word leaped from my throat, but it was too late. He was gone. 'Stop,' I screamed again, the empty streets echoing the command. Through the door I plunged terrified and confused. Reaching out into the night, I could feel nothing but the darkness..."

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Posted by Audiori J on 08-15-2008 at16:13:

 

The old man vs the new.

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Posted by Ritchie_az on 08-15-2008 at16:46:

 

quote:

The old man vs the new

Exactly!

It's a message to the church: "everything has a double existence, both in time and when time shall be no more."

Unfortunatly, Mr. Nakamoto didn't "get" what Terry was saying, despite all the Scripture that says pretty much the same thing:
Psalm 115:1-8
Ephesians 2:4-7
Romans 7:15-24
Ephesians 4:22 & 23
2 Corinthians 11:13-15

Jon Eddies said it is very "Paul-esque" (or something like that), and it very much is.

I guess "I exalt thee, oh God" is easier to understand. It takes very little effort to say, but I wonder if Mr. Nakamoto has ever wondered while singing it, "How exactly does a sinful, broken human exalt the most high God?" To me, that's a tough question that, in a way, Terry takes a stab at in Fearful Symmetry and Darn Floor - Big Bite. I wonder what Mr. Nakamoto thought of those albums?

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Posted by jon eddies on 08-15-2008 at18:43:

  Dg

This is just great conversation about a great album. Maybe I'm being a snob but would this kind of conversation happen on a Phil Driscol message board? I doubt it. Not exactly knocking him, just the ideas in the review. I had a pastor who once actually told me that mature christians didn't listen to Rock music, Christian or otherwise. And he was a leader. Oh well. Do we still need to love the "sheep" who blindly follow the fads instead of seeking a deeper walk with the good shepard? Of course. It's just sort of sad.
Jon Foreman hasa tune in his newest solo EP that says something like " I hate all your noisey worship...I hate all the show".

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Posted by jon eddies on 08-15-2008 at18:47:

  Dg

Here is the lyric for that Jon Foreman tune

I hate all your show and pretense
the hypocrisy of your praise
the hypocrisy of your festivals
I hate all your show

Away with your noisy worship
Away with your noisy hymns
I stop up my ears when your
singing ‘em
I hate all your show

Instead let there be a flood
of justice
An endless procession of righteous
living, living
Instead let there be a flood
of justice
Instead of a show

your eyes are closed when you’re praying
you sing right along with the band
you shine up your shoes for services
but there’s blood on your hands

you turned your back on the homeless
and the ones that don’t fit in your plans
quit playing religion games
there’s blood on your hands

Ah! let’s argue this out
if your sins are blood red
let’s argue this out
you’ll be white as the clouds
let’s argue this out
quit fooling around

give love to the ones who can’t love at all
give hope to the ones who got no hope at all
stand up for the ones who can’t stand up at all
instead of a show
I hate all your show

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Posted by dennis on 08-18-2008 at05:46:

 

quote:

Originally posted by Dr Rich Doppelganger to me is all about idolatry. Exchanging easy answers for the truth. A fantasy girl for a real relationship. Idealized life for the real thing. Of course there is more to it than that, but it's a major theme.

...and of course a Shopping Mall in exchange for Heaven and Golden Arches for a Wooden Cross.