---

Posted by jiminy on 11-29-2006 at17:19:

 

hello net
I agree with thee.

I have a mix of original (some on CD..some on "converted" cassette- and all the reissues since 2000 (less the Chronicle set- find large boot- kick own arse.)

so some are in a thin state..and I understaqnd the Audis biggest point- that DA doesnt OWN some of the things we are panting over...

anyways- thx fr posting - now your visible..no mo ghosting!

---

Posted by larryl on 11-29-2006 at20:41:

 

quote:

Originally posted by dennis quote: Originally posted by larryl quote: Originally posted by dennis True, if someone shells out $100 for a CD on ebay, they are not going pay another $20 to get it again. Whatever. I have all the DA stuff on the official CDs at this point anyway. a true completist will. i know. i used to be one. when you already have them on LP and tape and CD, how much of a "true completist" does one need to be?

i own identical version of CD's, just because they were released on different labels.........i buy re-releases that are no different from the original. why? OCD i guess....but i know others like me, too.

it's the same mentality that buys duplicates of everything.....or buys the short version of safe as milk, even though they already own the real one.

completist implies....everything. period.

---

Posted by dennis on 11-30-2006 at08:28:

 

quote:

Originally posted by larryl quote: Originally posted by dennis quote: Originally posted by larryl quote: Originally posted by dennis True, if someone shells out $100 for a CD on ebay, they are not going pay another $20 to get it again. Whatever. I have all the DA stuff on the official CDs at this point anyway. a true completist will. i know. i used to be one. when you already have them on LP and tape and CD, how much of a "true completist" does one need to be? i own identical version of CD's, just because they were released odifferent labels.........i buy re-releases that are no different from the original. why? OCD i guess....but i know others like me, too. it's the same mentality that buys duplicates of everything.....or buys the short version of safe as milk, even though they already own the real one. completist implies....everything. period.

that's just sad.
I own all the DA cds.
That is "complete" enough for me.

If there are enough "goodies" I may buy a re-issue,
but I am not gonna feel bad if others own cd-rs of DA stuff.

I guess my point was the longer a CD is out of print,
the more the market is going to shrink.

It does not matter if someone burns a cd-r,
buys it on ebay,or just moves on to other bands.

If the music is out of print, the market will shrink.

So enough with the guilt trip on fans.

---

Posted by Audiori J on 11-30-2006 at08:35:

 

Thats false. What creates a market is wanting something they can't get for free. People are only willing to pay for something they can't get any other way. As soon as its available for free the market starts to shrink and die.

---

Posted by larryl on 11-30-2006 at08:36:

 

i think i agree with that, too

certainly the general population is not like me..........or most of the other people on this board.....

dennis makes good points.

dennis....i confess. i downloaded your discs, for free.

---

Posted by Audiori J on 11-30-2006 at08:49:

 

Look at it this way, from the beginning of the music industry bands had singles for radio play. The singles are a taste given to radios to wet the appetite for the album. That creates a market, thats business. Its the same thing as handing out one tiny piece of food on a toothpick in the supermarket or a movie preview. Even Myspace is the same concept, a few songs as a sample. That works. Offering the whole album, or movie for free (in a digital perfect format) reduces how many people will actually buy the product. Given the choice, a lot of people will just take the free one instead of buying. Creating a market is making people want something they can't get and then offering to sell it to them. Thats what a market is, not so ironically, thats why its called a market.

These bands need every sale they can get to keep going. Small artists, indipendant artists unfortunately need the same kind of business strategy as any other industry. And they are more directly affected.

We personally assist these guys in selling the CDs for them, we see the effects. Its not a 'guilt trip', its just a fact. Terry and these guys need the die hard and potential fans to buy and not choose the download option instead.

We know , the argument is made, these albums are not currently in print. Even though this guy offered some albums that were in print. But, Terry, Tom and we are trying to work towards sort of the definitive reissue series. Vox Humana for example needs reissued with nice packaging. It never was other than the Alarma Bookset. We want to work toward those negotiations, and Terry and the band will still need every sale possible or its not financially secure to put the money and time into reissuing it. Every time someone puts up a site like this guy had he kills the possibility a little more. Not to mention for every person that chooses to download, instead of buying from Terry, the guy takes money directly out of the bands hands. Terry's letter is an appeal to the fans of DA, that we all are a family, its a special relationship. We all know he needs supported in prayer and financially. We understand he's not a big million dollar artist, he needs the tours and CD sales to keep making music.

---

Posted by Josh&etc on 11-30-2006 at10:43:

 

Speaking of Vox Humana (and Fearful Symmetry), when it is eventually rereleased, would it be possible to have a bonus disc of the songs in "de-synthed" form?

---

Posted by joey on 11-30-2006 at11:14:

quote:

Originally posted by larryl dennis makes good points. dennis....i confess. i downloaded your discs, for free.

you are not a real fan.....

---

Posted by dennis on 11-30-2006 at12:05:

 

What Joey said...

---

Posted by dennis on 11-30-2006 at12:05:

 

quote:

Originally posted by Audiori J Thats false. What creates a market is wanting something they can't get for free. People are only willing to pay for something they can't get any other way. As soon as its available for free the market starts to shrink and die.

That is true, but it's also just as true as more times passes with stuff out of print, the less of a market there is.
It's a shame, but a fact.

---

Posted by Mountain Fan on 11-30-2006 at12:13:

 

quote:

Originally posted by Josh&etc Speaking of Vox Humana (and Fearful Symmetry), when it is eventually rereleased, would it be possible to have a bonus disc of the songs in "de-synthed" form?

I would only buy these and even Doppelganger for anything extra Terry writes. While I like the lyrics, I couldn't come up with even a disc's worth of songs that I would actually enjoy listening to the music from those 3.

I thought the alternate "lounge style" music on When Everyone Wore Hats was great, but I liked the original Songs of the Heart versions too. However, I realize the reality is that re-recording will probably be next to impossible on these re-releases. Maybe if Terry gets together with any of the guys to do any recording for any other project anytime soon (Eddies?) he might consider it a challenge to pick a song or two from each to re-record in a different style (rocked-up with guitars?) and add to the re-release. I can only hope and dream.

---

Posted by MarkyMark77 on 11-30-2006 at12:18:

 

This is what I say (so it must be important)

Please do not re-issue the bookset. Just reissue each individual CD. Reissue them when you can with extras, etc. Reissue them as double discs if you have to much material for a single disc, but put the double discs in a single jewel case with a nice CD booklet. When all the rights are negotiated and every thing else is in place, do a pre-order two months before the release date for funding purposes. When you release a disc, do a download of it for everyone who pre-ordered. That way, if the manufacturing time runs over the release date, people can still access it. This way you're doing everything (almost) everybody wants. Kind of.

---

Posted by Mountain Fan on 11-30-2006 at12:22:

 

quote:

Originally posted by dennis quote: Originally posted by Audiori J Thats false. What creates a market is wanting something they can't get for free. People are only willing to pay for something they can't get any other way. As soon as its available for free the market starts to shrink and die. That is true, but it's also just as true as more times passes with stuff out of print, the less of a market there is. It's a shame, but a fact.

Yep to both.

While I sympathize with the plight of artists, I also think that recorded art should be a little like a trademark. Part of a trademark is having to "maintain" and "enforce" it. That's why Andy Griffith went after that sheriff dude that changed his name (that was in MN, or upper midwest somewhere, wasn't it?). I think that if an artists' work is not available and they have no plans to do so that it should be legal to copy it free, after some reasonable time period. Now, this would not necessarily apply to Terry and DA. There's plenty of places that have the DA, SE, Terry "greatest hit" CDs and other things. What I am talking about is if NOTHING in that artists' catalog is commercially available, whoever has ownership should have some set time period from the last available date of the recording (20 to 30 years?) to do whatever they please with it. If they choose to do nothing, then they should lose ownership to the public domain so everyone who wants can enjoy the music. Woody Guthrie never bothered copyrighting much, if anything, and I'm sure there were other artists that didn't either, although I think that's kinda silly too.

---

Posted by MarkyMark77 on 11-30-2006 at13:42:

 

quote:

whoever has ownership should have some set time period from the last available date of the recording (20 to 30 years?) to do whatever they please with it. If they choose to do nothing, then they should lose ownership to the public domain so everyone who wants can enjoy the music.

Then maybe the owners of DA stuff will actually do something with it instead of it languishing in their vaults while the Townsends try to negotiate to use something that the owners aren't doing anything with anyway.

---

Posted by Josh&etc on 11-30-2006 at14:11:

 

quote:

Originally posted by Mountain Fan [quote]Originally posted by dennis [quote]Originally posted by Audiori J What I am talking about is if NOTHING in that artists' catalog is commercially available, whoever has ownership should have some set time period from the last available date of the recording (20 to 30 years?) to do whatever they please with it. If they choose to do nothing, then they should lose ownership to the public domain so everyone who wants can enjoy the music.

I'd favor a law that stated that if any recording was out of print for 10 years, the rights to the recording would return to the original artist. And then, maybe ten or fifteen years later, if nothing was done, the recording would become public domain.

Nothing in the artists catalog is too vague, though. Hypoythetically speaking, a company, if they owned the rights to all of a band's music, could release one of their albums every decade or two and fall within the letter of the law. That wouldn't benefit the public that much.

---

Posted by larryl on 11-30-2006 at14:21:

 

as a musician, i don't like those ideas at all......as a fan they sound cool, i suppose....but you're talking about a total re-writing of the copyright laws....and it's not going to happen.

---

Posted by audiori on 11-30-2006 at14:27:

 

quote:

Originally posted by dfroystad reissue the book, then reissue the albums, single disc or dobule dosen't matter, if you are a fan and got the first edtition of the book (with the cds) it would not harm you to get the cds again.....you get bonus material, and a nice uniform row in your cd collection with the complete DA-discography

I think this is probably the most likely option so far... certainly the most practical. It would mean that we could start on Alarma and Doppelganger as soon as time allows and we wouldn't have to get the rights to Vox and Fearful first. A strict book set reissue would mean a lot of extra negotiations before any of them could be done. Then, we could still try to reissue the book itself (without the discs, and correcting M8's typos, etc) for anyone that missed it.

---

Posted by dennis on 11-30-2006 at15:49:

 

quote:

Originally posted by Josh&etc Speaking of Vox Humana (and Fearful Symmetry), when it is eventually rereleased, would it be possible to have a bonus disc of the songs in "de-synthed" form?

That would be fun. I like that "Hats" project a lot.
I would buy that!

---

Posted by joey on 11-30-2006 at16:12:

quote:

Originally posted by dennis quote: Originally posted by Josh&etc Speaking of Vox Humana (and Fearful Symmetry), when it is eventually rereleased, would it be possible to have a bonus disc of the songs in "de-synthed" form? That would be fun. I like that "Hats" project a lot. I would buy that!

or even better, do it with dfbb...
if terry can't ever get the rights to that album, could he re-do it that way?
would that be legal?

although i read somewhere where terry said that was a one-time thing with hats and he won't be doing that with other albums..........

---

Posted by jeffrey k. on 11-30-2006 at17:40:

 

quote:

Originally posted by joey or even better, do it with dfbb... if terry can't ever get the rights to that album, could he re-do it that way? would that be legal?

As far as I understand this, any artist can re-record anything they want, but they would still have to pay the owners of the music to do it. It's just like a band covering a song...same .concept.

Cracker did this recently. They have had a long running dispute with Virgin Records over their records....which came to another head earlier this year when they found out the label was doing a "Best Of" without consulting them. They asked Virgin to not release the CD as there had already been another Best Of released just a couple years earlier, but Virgin told them to more or less....well....go fornicate themselves....at least according to the band. To complicate matters, the band had a new album they were going to release (on another label as they are no longer on Virgin) and the "Best Of" was scheduled to come out at the same time, which only made things worse....

So....the band delayed their new record release, found out what the track list for the Virgin "Best Of" was going to be, and then went into the studio and re-recorded every song live. Then, to mess with Virgin, they told all the fans to not buy the Virgin version, and then released their own "Best Of" on the same day as the Virgin release....outselling it 10 to 1. In the process they came close to paying off all their publishing debts to Virgin, and apparently will soon own all their old records!! Nothing like a label shooting itself in the foot....I mean Virgin did get "paid", but Cracker is coming out ahead.

So yeah...in theory Terry could re-record all his old stuff he doesn't own, but he'd still have to pay KMG and whoever else for every CD that sells...

jeffrey k.