Daniel Amos Message Board | Print: Lost Dogs DVD rocks

Posted by Nez on 08-08-2003 at13:18:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffrey k.
"This DVD was made by people who fancy themselves to be some sort of filmmakers, so they threw cool images together with the music, but they did so without rhyme or reason or any idea how to connect the two."

Hey...fair is fair...I seem to recall *someone* accusing him of only "fancying himself as some sort of critic." Smile

I seem to recall an initial comment from Peter when he first received it of liking it...but then he started asking the questions...and it all blew up. I realize you got e-mails telling you he was a jerk...and that doesn't surprise me...but ironically, some of his greatest detractors are amazing jerks themselves. So, you should probably take that into account.

That said, I have liked the various products you have released so far(I have no opinion on the Dogs DVD-only seen bits and pieces so far). Especially Derri min-mini-mini-MINI Opus...when did he become the three minute song writer?! Smile

Posted by jeffrey k. on 08-08-2003 at15:25:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nez
Hey...fair is fair...I seem to recall *someone* accusing him of only "fancying himself as some sort of critic."[QUOTE]

I said that he seemed to be someone who fancied himself some sort of critic, and the thing is, I actually didn't know he was one in the "professional" sense when I said that....and if you read back, once people on the list told me, I then said it all added up. But so what? How is what he said "fair"? Because he is a critic, he can give criticicism, but can't take it? I can't be critical of his critique? Eye for an eye? What? You have to understand, before the DVD came out, (and before I joined the dadl) I had emails with people warning me that "this guy named Peter on the DADL would probably rag on the DVD, simply because he could." When I asked why I got answers ranging from, "He's an a-hole" to "cause he's a jerk and likes to argue." I dismissed most of it because I figured someone that pre-disposed to dislike something wouldn't bother buying it. So look...what am I supposed to think, and why was the fact that I answered his questions seem to be such a problem? No matter what I said he either had a longwinded remark as to how it should have been different, better, etc. And to be totally honest, it wasn't a discussion I even wanted to entertain. But since he was posting the same messages on a few different lists, I felt an obligation to answer, and in the end a bit trapped, becuase as soon as I would he would come back with a list of reasons why something should have been done differently based on my answers. It got old fast, and it simply seemed like he was trying to discredit the project. I'm not the only one who thought this either, and it was a source of real concern.

[QUOTE]I seem to recall an initial comment from Peter when he first received it of liking it...but then he started asking the questions...and it all blew up. I realize you got e-mails telling you he was a jerk...and that doesn't surprise me...but ironically, some of his greatest detractors are amazing jerks themselves. So, you should probably take that into account.."[QUOTE]

I guess that is your interpretation of things. From the brief time I have been on the dadl I have watched how he works. He basically forces you into either a debate, or into a defense when he is trying to get HIS point across. He wasn't asking questions, he was challenging choices, because he (in his critic wisdom) felt things should have been done differently. You might find his questions/challenges "legit", but then I think I have the legit right to answer questions and defend the work and not be accused of "blowing up" or being "overly defensive" simply because I have released something for mass consumption.

jeffrey k.

Posted by Squidzit on 08-08-2003 at15:29:

The DVD was great J.K.! I loved it, critics are just people who "can't" so they tear into people who "can"

Great job!! Big Grin

Posted by Nez on 08-08-2003 at15:52:

To be fair to both of you, I only saw the responses on the 77's list...which included one really long one where you made that comment about fancying himself a critic.

Before that, I saw a couple quick responses that explained your take. Those first couple seemed non-defensive and good hearted...but since most of it happened on the DADL...I left that place because I grew tired of the whining(I know people want their CDs)...my initial point was that many of these people who seem so appalled that Peter for demanding what is in his mind a satisfactory answer slam on the Audoris and make them explain hold ups over and over, and don't cut them any slack.

And in fairness, some of your stuff seemed to indulge in more attack than the review quote. I am not trying to say you are a terrible guy. But I guess, sure...Peter can be frustrating...but there are some equally frustrating folks on the DADL who never get singled out by the group. Oh, that's right, because they are all interested in quality service-they aren't attacking the Audioris...they just want better service. Yet, because of being of a particular personality type(the guy can be like a freaking Vulcan), he's a bad guy. Maybe it's because I am used to such variety on the various lists I have subscribed to...maybe because I can be an burro online to...I tend to think the guy gets over villainized.

Peter has a far more stringent standard than I or many others do...that doesn't mean he's predisposed to not liking stuff. That's not even a fair assessment of the guy...because I see e-mails from him all the time that give raves about stuff. Over at the Northern boards there was a debate over J. Edward Keyes' review of Mike's hearts of care...he is pretty tough on it, and many people were upset that he didn't praise it. But he spends a good 500 words telling us about the brilliance of Mike knott and then lamenting what he fails are the failing points of the CD and recent part of Mike's career. But they only notice the negatives and ignored all the good things that were said.

In the end, I agree. You don't have to please him, or me, or that guy hiding in the corner. I am not trying to put the hate vibe on you here. Honest. As I said, I like what I have seen from Lo-Fi so far. I think when it's all done and put behind us...who cares. Hopefully, you guys are going to get a chance to try new things and experiment a bit more with this stuff. I certainly hope the DVD is a success. Honestly I do. I appreciate that an effort was made to have an interesting and creative product out there for we the consumer. Especially when I am sure you guys put it together on a limited budget(as I recall there was a criticism from Peter about the camera angle being fairly limited...but I have a feeling if you could have had 12 cameras going, you would have).

Peace?

Posted by Ron E on 08-08-2003 at16:12:

Nez=Peter?

Posted by DaLe on 08-08-2003 at16:17:

quote:

Originally posted by Ron E
Nez=Peter?

nope, I meat Nez at the BBQ Sun.

Nez = nice Guy

jeffrey k. = nice Guy

two nice guys just chit-chating Smile

sometimes words on a message board seem Flat, so my Free advice on this subject is let it rest...

Posted by audiori on 08-08-2003 at16:52:

As people that followed as much of the DADL/77s DVD Peter posts as we could take, let me add a little to this.

Peter wasn't just asking questions. He was pushing. When he didn't get a response... he pushed again. and again. and again. It wasn't just a question or two - it was ridiculous criticisms like ''Why Chicago?''.... ''Why are there pictures of Chicago in this live video filmed in Chicago?''.... he seemed to be going waaayyy out of his way to find any little thing he could to pick apart. It wasn't even ''normal'' film criticisms.

Here's a question: How many of you would look at this video and ask ''Why Chicago?'' How many of you would then bother to post to multiple email lists and make a big deal out of the same question?

My guess is that most of you would already know the answer - and if you didn't - you wouldn't care what the answer was. Does Peter do this with the Movies he reviews? (''Why are there pictures of Chicago in Road to Perdition?'' ''Why Metropolis?'' ''Why Gothem City?'' or ''Why the Death Star?'')

Posted by dennis on 08-08-2003 at16:54:

Tongue

he seems to be an odd duck! Pleased

Posted by BD on 08-08-2003 at16:57:

quack quack

Posted by jeffrey k. on 08-08-2003 at17:10:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nez
To be fair to both of you, I only saw the responses on the 77's list...which included one really long one where you made that comment about fancying himself a critic.[QUOTE]

Nez...

This really bothers me though. I'm not, and never have been on the 77's list, so I have no idea what you even read, or how it may have been edited to read. It just seemed self serving, and a bit malicious on the part of Peter because he was posting his comments to several lists, and then posting edited forms of my comments on lists I'm not even on...where people could then make more comments or decisions about how I was responding, etc. If anything, that seems unfair to me. My comment about him "fancying himself as a critic" was just that. I thought I had run into a guy who thought he would play critic and pick apart the DVD. I didn't know he actually IS a critic. (Not that him being an actual critic matters all that much to me, but you get the idea.)

Other then that.... He might be a great guy...one can hope. I guess a lot of this comes down to how you interpret people online...and I really don't know him. But yeah...in the end it doesn't matter.

[QUOTE]
Peace?
[QUOTE]

Absolutley...and I apprecaite the chat with you. Thanks for the support of the label as well. (Maybe at some point I will get more songs out of Derri...)

jeffrey k.

Posted by jiminy on 08-08-2003 at17:12:

nez ..

A very articulate man-I would say.
(Nice to meet you and yer pa- and to read your most recent posts...
When people are closely involved with a project-any negative response would hurt.
I guess what I learned reading this (do not know Peter-do not own the DVD- yet..)
Is to perhaps refrain from joining the DADL- I've thought about it- but ..well, theres appears to be more negativity I can handle...(i.e argument dump)
It was playing before the MN show..and intrigued me - I thought the Chi-town imagery was integral with the film......
Why Chicago?..because it was there!

Posted by zippetydoodaddy on 08-08-2003 at17:16:

Via Chicago reminds me of this one video with Harry Connick Jr. and Doctor John play dueling piano/hammond organ. It's in stark b&w and is mixed in with sweet New Orleans footage. (nevermind that they're both from N.O. and that the song was "Do you know what it means to miss New Orleans")

The idea of mixing in the city where they're playing is inspired. It nails the show down to a time and place and makes it more live and more real. It also makes it seem like the entire city came to see them which makes me feel more mainstream (a feeling I desire once in a while).

Posted by zippetydoodaddy on 08-08-2003 at17:21:

<---
Hey, I'm a Hot Wolly!

Posted by BD on 08-08-2003 at17:23:

I've always felt that way about you zip

Posted by zippetydoodaddy on 08-08-2003 at17:36:

That's a very weird feeling to see myself up there. Hot Wolly or not, I'm no John Stamos. Big Grin

Posted by zippetydoodaddy on 08-08-2003 at17:38:

Hey Dork

I think we're gonna need some of your footage. It looks like we lost a camera in the madness Frown

Posted by BD on 08-08-2003 at17:39:

quote:

Originally posted by zippetydoodaddy
I think we're gonna need some of your footage. It looks like we lost a camera in the madness Frown

send me an email and we'll talk about it

Posted by Nez on 08-08-2003 at17:46:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffrey k.
Other then that.... He might be a great guy...one can hope. I guess a lot of this comes down to how you interpret people online...and I really don't know him. But yeah...in the end it doesn't matter.

Yeah. It's actually been my experience the people who get along with Peter and figure "that's just him" have met him...the people who think he's a horrible gent, haven't. Smile

It creates a different mental picture once you've listened to him and seen him talk. Smile

quote:

Originally posted by jeffrey k.

Absolutley...and I apprecaite the chat with you. Thanks for the support of the label as well. (Maybe at some point I will get more songs out of Derri...)

I am hoping to get the DVD before I move to L.A. actually. Then I think I have the complete Lo-Fi catalogue. but if you *ever* need help...like dragging Derri to a studio and tying him to a chair...and someone to crack the whip? I'm your man. Wink