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Posted by Squidzit on 11-19-2003 at16:52:

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Posted by Joey T. on 11-19-2003 at16:55:

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Posted by freak on 11-19-2003 at17:12:

quote:

Originally posted by dennis CCM glows with warmth, the mag and the music, still I am happy for DA, and yes of course I will buy that rag in Dec... now why is Jars of Clay on the cover?

Yeah, I think this says it all... Dennis.

DA get's exposure and recognition for some mythical, CCM Hall of Fame... the inaugural band I guess to be inducted - and they still aren't "pretty" enough to garner a cover!

I don't get it... oh, I'll pick up CCM - but I don't get it.

I disdain everything about the CCM indu$try.

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Posted by Squidzit on 11-19-2003 at19:17:

 

quote:

Originally posted by freak I disdain everything about the CCM indu$try.

That's a pretty wide net there.

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Posted by You Gotta Be There on 11-19-2003 at21:50:

 

I have my beefs about CCM Magazine, the commercialism and shallowness; but still, there is a lot of good in the magazine too. I haven't bought an issue in a long time; but it does look like December 2003 is one that I will be picking up.

I don't understand people here who say that they hate CCM music. Taylor's music is Christian and its contemporary; and there's nothing wrong with that. Many/most of the great hymns were once contemporary as well as Christain.

What I think people really mean to say is that they don't like music that sounds like it came out of a factory. Plenty in CCM are guilty of that; and plenty in the secular market are guilty of that, too.

What, I believe, we mean to say, is that whether the music is by a Christian or not, we like the music to be a genuine and honest expression, rather than some kind of commercial formula.

Thankfully, Taylor's projects are true art that cannot be labeled as factory music; and they usually push the artistic envelope both lyrically and musically.

I'm looking forward to the CCM issue and what they have to say. I wonder if there will be an extensive interview with Terry Taylor for it? Seems like there should be.
ygbt

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Posted by freak on 11-20-2003 at06:16:

  CCM or ccm

I understand that music is Christian and Contemporary... and I like music that is Christian and at one time was Contemporary (ccm)... I enjoy much music that is Christian...

But CCM is also an industry - and as an industry... this machine is attempting to forecast new trends and dress up dolls and boys (just check out Michael W. Smith from his first Album to Go West Young Man - pretty drastic change) to capture the attention of the youth and capture the newly married, and many other niche markets. The industry uses the term Christian - but they might as well be Epic Records or any other... it is one more case where Christendom has mirrored the world... rather than built a music ministry that mirrors the values of the Kingdom. What comes out (in most cases) is anything but authentic - instead we get plastic smiles; cliche' lyrics; and something that sounds like everything else on the radio - if smashmouth is popular on the "secular" radio - then the CCM industry has to churn out a "christian - sanitized smashmouth like band... to ride the smashmouth trend - so rather than allowing bands to create their own sound - the industry it appears to me reacts to what is happening in the world - rather than be out on the edge and creating new sounds, approaches and what I consider authentic music... The exceptions are so obvious - Delirious hits out of no where and on their own merit - little marketing, etc. are an overnight phenomenon; Burlap to Cashmere, Chevelle, Jars of Clay... each of these bands when they emerged - were the genuine result of Christian people creating their own sound - untouched by the machine of CCM... and the results were so refreshing (there are many good people with good intentions in CCM - I am sure - from artists to producers to front office types - but in my estimation the philosophical ideaologies are flawed).

That is what is so refreshing about a DA - they have been in, but not of CCM - they have remained unique; authentic; real and extremely creative. They do represent what could be in music that reflects our faith...

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Posted by freak on 11-20-2003 at06:42:

 

quote:

Originally posted by Squidzit quote: Originally posted by freak I disdain everything about the CCM indu$try. That's a pretty wide net there.

Yeah, Squidzit - that is another beautiful and brilliant example of overstating the case!

one of my trademarks...

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Posted by PuP on 11-20-2003 at07:07:

RE: CCM or ccm

quote:

Originally posted by freak they have been in, but not of CCM

Well-spoken! The whole post was good, but I especially liked this point.

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Posted by Squidzit on 11-20-2003 at08:06:

  RE: CCM or ccm

quote:

Originally posted by freak I understand that music is Christian and Contemporary... and I like music that is Christian and at one time was Contemporary (ccm)... I enjoy much music that is Christian... But CCM is also an industry - and as an industry... this machine is attempting to forecast new trends and dress up dolls and boys (just check out Michael W. Smith from his first Album to Go West Young Man - pretty drastic change) to capture the attention of the youth and capture the newly married, and many other niche markets. The industry uses the term Christian - but they might as well be Epic Records or any other... it is one more case where Christendom has mirrored the world... rather than built a music ministry that mirrors the values of the Kingdom. What comes out (in most cases) is anything but authentic - instead we get plastic smiles; cliche' lyrics; and something that sounds like everything else on the radio - if smashmouth is popular on the "secular" radio - then the CCM industry has to churn out a "christian - sanitized smashmouth like band... to ride the smashmouth trend - so rather than allowing bands to create their own sound - the industry it appears to me reacts to what is happening in the world - rather than be out on the edge and creating new sounds, approaches and what I consider authentic music... The exceptions are so obvious - Delirious hits out of no where and on their own merit - little marketing, etc. are an overnight phenomenon; Burlap to Cashmere, Chevelle, Jars of Clay... each of these bands when they emerged - were the genuine result of Christian people creating their own sound - untouched by the machine of CCM... and the results were so refreshing (there are many good people with good intentions in CCM - I am sure - from artists to producers to front office types - but in my estimation the philosophical ideaologies are flawed).

Actually, you could substitute "churches" for "CCM" in most of this. This sounds to me, for the most part, like what some churches do.

quote:

Originally posted by freak That is what is so refreshing about a DA - they have been in, but not of CCM - they have remained unique; authentic; real and extremely creative. They do represent what could be in music that reflects our faith...

Da is creative because they have talent. I don't know if you're a musician, but writting a song is not an easy task. Even a bad one. And recording for BD's More Negative Fruit album showed me how hard it is to record a song and get it to sound 1/2 decent. Although I don't like the sound that most "CCM" bands produce, I can't bash them too bad if I can't do better. They have a place in this world, just like big mega churches and small store front churches. And I know lots of people think that "CCM" is just for the mindless masses, but if not for "CCM", what would they listen to? Britney?

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Posted by audiori on 11-20-2003 at19:49:

 

quote:

Originally posted by Joey T. yes, ccm does suck and DA is not ccm..... did the band have a say on this? i would think that terry would have politely declined..........

Nope. Terry's the one that let us know. I think they're
pleasantly surprised by the "Hall of Fame" thing...


CCM Magazine is not good or bad regardless of
its content... CCM Magazine is good or bad *because*
of its content. When its all the Tuxedo Clad Megastar all the time - no
thanks. If it's big articles on DA... sure, I'll buy that one.

Enjoy it while its good.

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Posted by Joey T. on 11-20-2003 at19:54:

 

quote:

Originally posted by audiori quote: Originally posted by Joey T. yes, ccm does suck and DA is not ccm..... did the band have a say on this? i would think that terry would have politely declined.......... Nope. Terry's the one that let us know. I think they're pleasantly surprised by the "Hall of Fame" thing... CCM Magazine is not good or bad regardless of its content... CCM Magazine is good or bad *because* of its content. When its all the Tuxedo Clad Megastar all the time - no thanks. If it's big articles on DA... sure, I'll buy that one. Enjoy it while its good.

ok... to tell you the honest truth, i've never even looked at one... guess i will have to with this one....

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Posted by dorfsmith on 11-20-2003 at22:41:

 

The CCM arguement is getting old. Lets just say that I hate an industry that sells Christ. I like music that many Christian musicians make.

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Posted by jwaltb on 11-21-2003 at06:41:

 

I subscribed to CCM for a long time way back when. They actually were pretty good at one time in my opinion, but their focus seemed to be going more and more mainstream commercial so I quit reading a few years back. One thing that's sure..... it's good to hear it's now being run by someone with this guy's background. It'll be worth watching anyway. And as for this article - I see it as all good! Congratulations, Daniel Amos and all related!!! You guys definitely deserve it and I hope it opens many a door. Maybe even prompt a new album in the months ahead????? I could handle that.

JB

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Posted by PuP on 11-21-2003 at07:33:

quote:

Originally posted by dorfsmith The CCM arguement is getting old. Lets just say that I hate an industry that sells Christ. I like music that many Christian musicians make.

I can agree with this statement.

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Posted by HEMISPHERICALHEADS on 11-21-2003 at07:42:

  RE: CCM or ccm

quote:

Originally posted by freak I understand that music is Christian and Contemporary... and I like music that is Christian and at one time was Contemporary (ccm)... I enjoy much music that is Christian... But CCM is also an industry - and as an industry... this machine is attempting to forecast new trends and dress up dolls and boys (just check out Michael W. Smith from his first Album to Go West Young Man - pretty drastic change) to capture the attention of the youth and capture the newly married, and many other niche markets. The industry uses the term Christian - but they might as well be Epic Records or any other... it is one more case where Christendom has mirrored the world... rather than built a music ministry that mirrors the values of the Kingdom. What comes out (in most cases) is anything but authentic - instead we get plastic smiles; cliche' lyrics; and something that sounds like everything else on the radio - if smashmouth is popular on the "secular" radio - then the CCM industry has to churn out a "christian - sanitized smashmouth like band... to ride the smashmouth trend - so rather than allowing bands to create their own sound - the industry it appears to me reacts to what is happening in the world - rather than be out on the edge and creating new sounds, approaches and what I consider authentic music... The exceptions are so obvious - Delirious hits out of no where and on their own merit - little marketing, etc. are an overnight phenomenon; Burlap to Cashmere, Chevelle, Jars of Clay... each of these bands when they emerged - were the genuine result of Christian people creating their own sound - untouched by the machine of CCM... and the results were so refreshing (there are many good people with good intentions in CCM - I am sure - from artists to producers to front office types - but in my estimation the philosophical ideaologies are flawed). That is what is so refreshing about a DA - they have been in, but not of CCM - they have remained unique; authentic; real and extremely creative. They do represent what could be in music that reflects our faith...

Good responses FREAK..
I agree..Good music is supposed to be art..Most CCM is not art.Most secular is not art..People in this postmodern society don't understand what good art is. They think Brittney running around showing us her jewels is artistic? People are very shallow in these days..There is not a whole lot of depth in anything anymore. Rather than reading Ravi Zacharias or C.S. Lewis we would rather read the "left Behind Series" and consider it masterpiece.

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Posted by Squidzit on 11-21-2003 at08:03:

 

Good music is supposed to be enjoyed. As long as someone is doing that, the artist has done their job. Not matter the reason they like the music. You better believe a lot of people think DA is just a rip off band. I read an article in Rolling Stone once comparing every style that Terry went through to some other band. They completely dismissed him! So do we think he's great still? I do!!

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Posted by DaLe on 11-21-2003 at08:06:

 

quote:

Originally posted by audiori CCM Magazine is not good or bad regardless of its content... CCM Magazine is good or bad *because* of its content. When its all the Tuxedo Clad Megastar all the time - no thanks. If it's big articles on DA... sure, I'll buy that one. Enjoy it while its good.

a well balanced, sane statement.

... who let You onto this DAmb thing

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Posted by jiminy on 11-21-2003 at08:08:

 

if smashmouth is popular on the "secular" radio - then the CCM industry has to churn out a "christian - sanitized smashmouth like band... to ride the smashmouth trend -

TOTALLY agree-
but let me offer an interesting perspective-
When I was in MSR (Maximum Security religion) all through the 80s..a long tale..
I listened exclusivly to CCM - I STILL am "catching up" with some of the great music I missed (c'm on now , there was some...)-
I never bought CCM music back then thinking- "they sound like"-
though now looking back I hear the Springsteen in Stonehills "Wild Frontier"
or the Police/Elvis Costello sounds in the early 77s.
I didnt know the Choir was sounding like the Cure- I didnt listen to the Cure. (I do now baby-..)
But I think that artists influence artists-
(Stryper/Foriegner..hello???)
the reason DA did a Talking Heads tune at CS84 is simple- TH was the bomb -
so to "borrow" a style is done everywhere- thats why you had 19 boy bands 2 years ago- and none today.
I Agree that Christian Music tends to offer "sanitized" versions of whats popular- but to a portion of their unsuspecting audience- they just may think its new and fresh.

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Posted by Squidzit on 11-21-2003 at08:13:

 

quote:

Originally posted by jiminy (Maximum Security religion)

LOL!!


I did my time too baby!

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Posted by JR88 on 11-21-2003 at08:19:

 

quote:

Originally posted by audiori CCM Magazine has been a mixed bag over the years of course.. just like CCM music.. however, remember that there are some great artists and bands within the industry and CCM Magazine has featured interviews and stories on some amazing artists over the years including Cockburn, U2, Sam Phillips, TBone Burnett (heck, he used to write for the magazine if I remember correctly), Tonio K, Mark Heard, Buddy & Julie Miller, DA, Lost Dogs, Rich Mullins, etc. If it wasn't for CCM Magazine, I probably wouldn't know who some of these folks were. One of the former guys from Squint is now running things at CCM... they may get back to covering some good artists again. This DA story is a good start. For good or bad, DA has always been a part of the CCM industry and, in my opinion, they represent what is good about the CCM market... in many ways, they helped start it. Its good that they're getting some attention and recognition for what they've contributed with the Hall of Fame. Don't throw the good out with the bad, folks.

quote:

Originally posted by audiori quote: Originally posted by Joey T. yes, ccm does suck and DA is not ccm..... did the band have a say on this? i would think that terry would have politely declined.......... Nope. Terry's the one that let us know. I think they're pleasantly surprised by the "Hall of Fame" thing... CCM Magazine is not good or bad regardless of its content... CCM Magazine is good or bad *because* of its content. When its all the Tuxedo Clad Megastar all the time - no thanks. If it's big articles on DA... sure, I'll buy that one. Enjoy it while its good.

well said audiori